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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2001 : 09:36:20 [Permalink]
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I was being nice. It is illegal to do what the U.S. has done so far. To attack another country without negotiations violates the U.N. Charter and I don't know what other agreements and treaties the U.S. is a party to. That's the first, and I'm sure there will be more.
Your excuse of crime is excusing crime, and is no different than anyone else's excuse of crime.
Hopefully, this will be nothing like the crime that was Vietnam, or even the Gulf War.
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Gorgo, what potential criminal behavior? What do you see as potentially criminal - when you play with pigs you get dirty. This is going to be an ugly war, with our troops in - often times - the same/similar situations as Vietnam. Unsure who the *enemy* is. Vietnam was ugly, terrorism is ugly, war is ugly, this will be ugly too. Blood on our hands - there's blood on every governments hands. There is no innocence in politics and it's a nice goal but it's not a reality. There will be civilian casualties, that's one of those things that will happen/has happened. To think war can be waged without loss of life is naive. But we want to *play nice* and they don't care.
onnegut, Jr.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 10:21:26 [Permalink]
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Refer to Garrettes beautiful rant in another topic. I can agree.
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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Kaptain K
New Member
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 11:54:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Kaptain K, I'm not sure we'll see WW3 but I don't see an end to this in the near future.
I hope you are right about WW3 and agree about not seeing the end any time soon. My fear is that both bin Laden and the Taliban have vowed revenge. Desparate men in desperate situations will be driven to acts of desparation. IF a subsequent act of terror were to involve any of the ABC (atomic, biological, chemical) weapons, there are those who would consider it justification for the use of tactical nukes against the terrorists holed up in the caves of Afghanistan. Once the nuclear djinn is unleashed, who can foresee the consequences? There are those in India and Pakistan who are looking for an excuse to "settle" their differences. China could decide to settle the "Taiwan problem". Who can predict how the Russian military hawks will react when atomic push comes to nuclear shove?
As I said, I hope you are right, but the are many pitfalls on the road ahead and many of them lead to disaster beyond comprehension.
Edited by - Kaptain K on 10/11/2001 11:55:38
Edited by - Kaptain K on 10/11/2001 11:56:59 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 12:00:18 [Permalink]
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I am starting to think Taiwans days are numbered. The Chinese are too smart to let an opportunity like this slip by and they've been wanting to reclaim that island for a long time.
Next week's Frontline is about that I think. It should be interesting. So was last week's. Did anyone catch that? It was about terrorism lessons of the 80's.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 12:06:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
I am starting to think Taiwans days are numbered. The Chinese are too smart to let an opportunity like this slip by and they've been wanting to reclaim that island for a long time.
Don't let Frontline be your guide to what is military reality. The biggest obstacle to China's conquest of Taiwan is their lack of a navy and an amphibious assault capacity. Even without our help the Taiwanese can hold the Chinese off for quite some time.
Which is not to say that the Chinese won't make the mistake of trying anyway. From a strictly military point of view and ignoring the political ramifications, that might not be a bad thing since we're all geared up for just such a thing now.
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I was being nice. It is illegal to do what the U.S. has done so far. To attack another country without negotiations violates the U.N. Charter
Does this satisfy you? Or does it simply not matter that this has been addressed for years at the U.N. and in negotiations?
http://www.un.org/Docs/scres/1999/99sc1267.htm
My kids still love me. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 12:12:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Don't let Frontline be your guide to what is military reality. The biggest obstacle to China's conquest of Taiwan is their lack of a navy and an amphibious assault capacity. Even without our help the Taiwanese can hold the Chinese off for quite some time.
That Frontline won't be on until next week. But I started thinking about this a couple weeks ago after reading a few articles. They didn't address any of the difficulties China might have in actually doing it but it actually has occured to me and Taiwan is hardly undefended. Wasn't Taiwan a fortress or something years back?
I wonder what the US would do if China did attack somehow. Things seem complicated enough without throwing that wad of fun into the mix.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 13:27:07 [Permalink]
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I'm sure I'll be satisfied when someone explains some things to me.
I missed the part where it says that George Bush is emperor and the U.S. should go in and bomb whatever country they feel like bombing. Is that the part that's been discussed for years? By whom? Wolf Blitzer?
When you find that for me, please show me the part that says it's okay for the new Emperor and the Security Council to tear up the UN Charter. See especially Chapter XI article 33.
http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/
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Does this satisfy you? Or does it simply not matter that this has been addressed for years at the U.N. and in negotiations?
http://www.un.org/Docs/scres/1999/99sc1267.htm
My kids still love me.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 13:32:54 [Permalink]
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When 6,000 or so Americans are killed the US can go do what it can to remedy that. So far most of the world has been behind the US all the way. We tried do nothing when terrorists atacked Americans back in the 80s and that didn't work out very well did it?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 13:35:30 [Permalink]
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So, those are the choices? Do nothing or be a criminal?
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When 6,000 or so Americans are killed the US can go do what it can to remedy that. So far most of the world has been behind the US all the way. We tried do nothing when terrorists atacked Americans back in the 80s and that didn't work out very well did it?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Hook
Skeptic Friend
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 14:36:53 [Permalink]
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So, those are the choices? Do nothing or be a criminal?
No, those are how you see the choices. The choices are do nothing, do something recklessly without consulting anyone else and do something with complete coordination with international powers, including those in the region, and the UN. We have wisely done the latter and have, in fact, complied with article 73 of Chapter XI.
I see no difference in the baseless propaganda you are broadcasting and the propaganda coming out of Al Qeeda. Do you have anything constructive to say? Instead of attacking, what are your suggestions for what we should be doing?
Even if I disagree with your approch, constructive criticism is fine. But your misinformed attacks on US policy are counterproductive and misleading, at best.
(P-)>
We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 14:56:04 [Permalink]
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I see, so constructive is to support terrorism, and deny reality. No, in that case, I have nothing constructive to say.
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No, those are how you see the choices. The choices are do nothing, do something recklessly without consulting anyone else and do something with complete coordination with international powers, including those in the region, and the UN. We have wisely done the latter and have, in fact, complied with article 73 of Chapter XI.
I see no difference in the baseless propaganda you are broadcasting and the propaganda coming out of Al Qeeda. Do you have anything constructive to say? Instead of attacking, what are your suggestions for what we should be doing?
Even if I disagree with your approch, constructive criticism is fine. But your misinformed attacks on US policy are counterproductive and misleading, at best.
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 18:44:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
... I missed the part where it says that George Bush is emperor ...
Gee, and only a few weeks ago, Bush was just a dictator.
Gorgo, I suggest you see your physician about these recurring hallucinations.
Geesh...and you even accuse others of "denying reality". Wow! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 18:56:21 [Permalink]
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As far as the dictator remark, if you'd been paying attention you'd see that I was responding to yet someone else telling me that it was sacreligious to talk about U.S. foreign policy, as though Jesus W. Bush were already a dictator. He's working on it, and may be in many ways, but we still have the shell of a democracy.
Now, you seem to be in agreement with that idea.
Some other person mentioned that the "whole world" just loves to help 'W' with his crusade against the Devil. That is denying reality.
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... I missed the part where it says that George Bush is emperor ...
Gee, and only a few weeks ago, Bush was just a dictator.
Gorgo, I suggest you see your physician about these recurring hallucinations.
Geesh...and you even accuse others of "denying reality". Wow!
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 19:14:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
As far as the dictator remark, if you'd been paying attention you'd see that I was responding to yet someone else telling me that it was sacreligious to talk about U.S. foreign policy, as though Jesus W. Bush were already a dictator. ...
No, that's not what was said at all...unless "rallying" somehow carries that connotation in your mind.quote:
... He's working on it, and may be in many ways, but we still have the shell of a democracy. ...
Umm...wrong again. You're confusing leadership in a crisis with dictatorship.quote:
... Now, you seem to be in agreement with that idea. ...
Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth...I have said no such thing.quote:
... Some other person mentioned that the "whole world" just loves to help 'W' with his crusade against the Devil. That is denying reality.
I'm assuming here (always dangerous, since it's often difficult to tell just what the hell you're talking about) that you're referring to the fact that there are one or two nations remaining who have not yet denounced the terrorist attacks and bin Laden's role in them. If so, I think that "whole world" is much less of an overstatement than much of your babbling, paranoia and crossed signals.
Long-time posters here will recognize that I've just broken one of my cardinal rules ("Thou shalt not reply to cranks")...and I'm done.
Bleah |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2001 : 19:19:29 [Permalink]
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Your need to be superior to "cranks" is noted and appreciated.
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Long-time posters here will recognize that I've just broken one of my cardinal rules ("Thou shalt not reply to cranks")...and I'm done.
Bleah
Stop the murder of the Iraqi people.
http://www.endthewar.org |
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