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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2006 : 02:00:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Among the most common faith groups in the U.S., Protestants have the highest suicide rate; Roman Catholics are next; Jews have the lowest rate.
Followers of religions that strongly prohibit suicide, like Christianity and Islam, have a higher suicide rate than those religions which have no strong prohibition (e.g. Buddhism and Hinduism.)[/list]
Since I'm a Buddhists I guess that's good to know, haha.
Actually there is a prohibition against suicide in Buddhism although it's not talked about as emphaticlly as with Catholics.
My mothers Jewish cousin, committed suicide, so I guess one shouldn't get too comfortable with statistics.  |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2006 : 03:17:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
We only have so much money and resources, why can't we put them into something better than a band aid?
Probably because we're having a hard enough time agreeing upon what will constitute an effective design for a band aid, and attacking the problems from the roots might involve even more disparity of opinion, possibly much more money, and it would involve an endeavor into "unknown territory"... our experience in dealing with problems at a social level is limited. Racism against Blacks was addressed as such beginning in the 60's, and I think there's been progress... but to get the government off their duffs took cities being burned, riots, and assasinations... yet the mere fact that there's been progress in that avenue as a result of direct and focused efforts is encouraging. And, regarding their kids, many parents feel distrust of anything that has any inuedo of intrusion into their personal lives (abusive parents might feel as such with particularly understandable reason.) We do have some data as to the effectiveness of medication and counselling... funding such a venture "into the unknowns" of changing social factors would face a lot of flack from those opposing such an "experiment" in unsubstantiated methods based upon budgetary questions, among other things. There'd be much stronger opposition than to the currently debated program... at least as of the present.
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
... Hillary...
Yeah, she has an aggressive attitude, but most of the "leaders" of the House and Senate project the same image. She acts more like Ted Kennedy than she does her husband. Goes back to the "playing the part" bit, maybe. In any event, if she wants to run for President (she might) and have a shot, she's setting the stage right as such. I doubt having what I, or most other people might consider a "pleasant attitude" in the media wouldn't leave her "a chance in hell" of even being nominated, especially with the "war on terror" and our assorted other wars in the Middle East going on. After all, she'd be Commander In Chief of the Armed Forces, too, so they're not going to elect a "wimp", right? ha ha.
quote:
Originally posted by HH
Polio vaccinations and eye tests are in schools because we care about...
I agree. RE lunches, vaccinations etc. not every child is so priveledged, and I think that's money well-spent. Even sports programs, music, etc. are as much or more for fun and social culture as education, and having it so structured also probably likewise gives kids such opportunities to participate they otherwise might not have. |
Ron White |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2006 : 09:42:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake:
No, it doesn't. I repeat school is for learning.
When was the last time you heard of a kid contracting polio? Or smallpox? When I was a kid, polio was relatively common. So, now the kids can learn about the success of these programs in their health class. How does that work for you?
And by the way, given our spending priorities even back then, those programs were cheap by almost any standard. And the results are impressive. Cheap and impressive... How many government programs can we say that about???
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 00:33:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
No where does it say, school lunch programs, medical care, or after school programs are a part of that education.
I got my polio medication at our doctors office.
Perhaps if people aren't prepared to take care of children they shouldn't have them.
THAT'S where we need to put our efforts, educating from an early age how to prepare for life so we wouldn't need all these programs.
You seem to have a problem with any government program at all...
Polio vaccinations and eye tests are in schools because we care about the health of our children. It's called social programs, and endorsing them is not "communist." We have these programs because most voters want these programs.
Seem? SEEM! What do you mean seem?
I most absolutly do have a problem when they take money from hard working people and give it to people who break the law or otherwise shouldn't have children. I have problems when the government makes it so difficult to live a quality life because of so many regulations.
They put people in jail who are not or should not be criminals because of drug laws and don't enforce people who come to the US and work here illegally. Yeah, I have a problem with what the government does when they puts it's nose into everything we do.
1st of all we shouldn't have so many 'social' programs and 2nd, who said anything about endorsing them being communist?.
Ms. Clinton wants to make everyone equal, That's communist. Nothing wrong with the programs, the government shouldn't pay for them. People who have kids should pay for them.
So what if it is good for society, it's getting out of control and people are taking advantage. There needs to be a better plan than to keep putting money into something that doesn't appear to be working. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 00:56:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
[quote]Snake:
When I was a kid, polio was relatively common. So, now the kids can learn about the success of these programs in their health class. How does that work for you?
And by the way, given our spending priorities even back then, those programs were cheap by almost any standard. And the results are impressive. Cheap and impressive... How many government programs can we say that about???
My friend across the street when I was a kid, her mother wouldn't let her go to the swimming pool at the local park because she was afraid of polio. I had a very dear friend who was several years older than I, she did have it. Yes, Kil I know about those deseases. It's good we don't have things like that anymore but we have others now. My nephew died of AIDS a few years ago. If kids are going to learn they should have the materials in the classroom to do so. There never seems to be enough money for that!
And why aren't they learning? We keep hearing how other countries and other states than Calif. are doing better. The more bonds they pass here to raise money the worse it gets. I had to go each semester to fight for my son to be in the proper classes in high school, that shouldn't have to happen. (he didn't always get in, the waiting list was so long)
We are getting off the subject..... people who have children should plan for their health care, mental and physical. If there's a problem that the school sees or if the child disrupts classes, they can tell the parents to get the kid tested but to test everyone, which I think was the orginal post, IMO that's not right. I don't trust the schools or the government. |
| Edited by - Snake on 01/11/2006 01:00:34 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 01:05:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Yeah, I have a problem with what the government does when they puts it's nose into everything we do.
1st of all we shouldn't have so many 'social' programs and 2nd, who said anything about endorsing them being communist?.
Ms. Clinton wants to make everyone equal, That's communist.
While I don't know much about Mrs. Clinton's politics, I'm pretty sure you can't rightly call her "communist." The idea is that there is a minimum standard of humane existence, and that we should be ashamed as a nation if any of our fellow citizens fall under it. People deserve basic education, medical care, and disaster relief. She doesn't advocate any ceiling past which people can no longer accumulate wealth, so no communism there (and a higher tax rate doesn't quite qualify). Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea that all poor people are "criminal", nor that all rich people are moral and deserving of their riches. A little giving back to the coffers of the nation that allowed you to earn your money seems like a perfectly fair trade.
But look, if it's social liberties you're looking to protect, Democrats are the wrong people to attack. It's the conservatives who keep sex ed out of schools and drug laws on the books.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/11/2006 01:12:19 |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 01:12:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
... or otherwise shouldn't have children.
Our experience suggests people are going to have kids regardless, unless some kind of voluntary, or mandatory sterilization program is invoked, or something (it would never wash RE the former, sounds kind of draconian RE the latter.) So short of that... why make the kids suffer because the parents are screw-ups ("Sins of the Father?")
quote:
They put people in jail who are not or should not be criminals because of drug laws and don't enforce people who come to the US and work here illegally.
RE illegal drugs and current policy, yeah, I agree- the laws might be "well-intended" but as they translate to reality, they're both counterproductive in some ways, and extremely destructive in others... even aside from issues of personal freedom and the hypocracy of having indesputably dangerous drugs (such as alcohol) legal and readily available. RE illegal aliens- a matter govenment's chosen to ignore for a very long time for whatever their reasons, but I think what's been more economically destructive in recent decades has been trade policy- even if we couldn't bring a few billion Chinese illegals here to work for chump change, we've still managed to accomplish the same ends by other means. That's played a bigger role in hurting us.
quote:
...we shouldn't have so many 'social' programs...
You have to be more specific- the term "Social Programs" covers a lot of territory- some of them are extremely beneficial if not essential, others (e.g. The National Endowment for the Arts, and the like) are far more questionable as that pertains to funding levels in some cases, and their funding justification at all in others.
quote:
So what if it is good for society, it's getting out of control and people are taking advantage. There needs to be a better plan than to keep putting money into something that doesn't appear to be working.
What evidence or data do you base these contentions on? |
Ron White |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 01:14:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
... Hillary...
Yeah, she has an aggressive attitude, but most of the "leaders" of the House and Senate project the same image. She acts more like Ted Kennedy than she does her husband. Goes back to the "playing the part" bit, maybe. In any event, if she wants to run for President (she might) and have a shot, she's setting the stage right as such. I doubt having what I, or most other people might consider a "pleasant attitude" in the media wouldn't leave her "a chance in hell" of even being nominated, especially with the "war on terror" and our assorted other wars in the Middle East going on. After all, she'd be Commander In Chief of the Armed Forces, too, so they're not going to elect a "wimp", right? ha ha.
Didn't want you to think I didn't read your post but this probably should be discussed in another place at this time. So I'll just say this:
I can't see a woman directing battle ships anyway. But more than that with her, just personally, her demeanor is unpleasant. Yes, as a politician she's about the same.....it's all an act for all of them but her phoniness is so transparent it rubs me the wrong way.
LOL, at least we can laugh at Bush, he's just funny! Clinton is dangerous. BTW, Bill is cool, I like him. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 01:23:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Yeah, I have a problem with what the government does when they puts it's nose into everything we do.
1st of all we shouldn't have so many 'social' programs and 2nd, who said anything about endorsing them being communist?.
Ms. Clinton wants to make everyone equal, That's communist.
While I don't know much about Mrs. Clinton's politics, I'm pretty sure you can't rightly call her "communist." The idea is that there is a minimum standard of humane existence, and that we should be ashamed as a nation if any of our fellow citizens fall under it. People deserve basic education, medical care, and disaster relief. She doesn't advocate any ceiling past which people can no longer accumulate wealth, so no communism there (and a higher tax rate doesn't quite qualify). Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea that all poor people are "criminal", nor that all rich people are moral and deserving of their riches. A little giving back to the coffers of the nation that allowed you to earn your money seems like a perfectly fair trade.
But look, if it's social liberties you're looking to protect, Democrats are the wrong people to attack. It's the conservatives who keep sex ed out of schools and drug laws on the books.
You are twisting my words. I don't have time to correct what you say.
Later,
nlm
ps. the demopublicans and the republacrats are both idiots! |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 01:32:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
I can't see a woman directing battle ships anyway.
What about Margaret Thatcher? Even Reagan liked her. |
Ron White |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 01:43:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
... or otherwise shouldn't have children.
Our experience suggests people are going to have kids regardless, unless some kind of voluntary, or mandatory sterilization program is invoked, or something (it would never wash RE the former, sounds kind of draconian RE the latter.) So short of that... why make the kids suffer because the parents are screw-ups ("Sins of the Father?")
quote:
They put people in jail who are not or should not be criminals because of drug laws and don't enforce people who come to the US and work here illegally.
RE illegal drugs and current policy, yeah, I agree- the laws might be "well-intended" but as they translate to reality, they're both counterproductive in some ways, and extremely destructive in others... even aside from issues of personal freedom and the hypocracy of having indesputably dangerous drugs (such as alcohol) legal and readily available. RE illegal aliens- a matter govenment's chosen to ignore for a very long time for whatever their reasons, but I think what's been more economically destructive in recent decades has been trade policy- even if we couldn't bring a few billion Chinese illegals here to work for chump change, we've still managed to accomplish the same ends by other means. That's played a bigger role in hurting us.
quote:
...we shouldn't have so many 'social' programs...
You have to be more specific- the term "Social Programs" covers a lot of territory- some of them are extremely beneficial if not essential, others (e.g. The National Endowment for the Arts, and the like) are far more questionable as that pertains to funding levels in some cases, and their funding justification at all in others.
quote:
So what if it is good for society, it's getting out of control and people are taking advantage. There needs to be a better plan than to keep putting money into something that doesn't appear to be working.
What evidence or data do you base these contentions on?
If things keep getting worse, perhaps in the near future more drastic measures will have to be taken to stop so many births.
Ronny, I didn't exactly understand what you were talking about the Chinese. Maybe my comment here is not correct, but please let me know. The Chinese did come here and worked hard and died building the Railroads, they've made a huge contribution to the USA. They were given less standing than blacks and were kept under more regulation way past the time when others had full and legal rights. You don't hear them making as big a deal though, not like other 'minorities' who DEMAND so much.
The evidence the closing of emergency hospital rooms because of the expense caused by people going there instead of a regular doctor. That's in the news if you want to find stories about that. As far as education, I am hearing more people each day using poor English even people who should know better, like news casters. I look around and see incompetence and waste. I only know what I see and it doesn't look good. I have to call the city all the time to get rid of graffiti. Stuff like that wasn't around when I moved here years ago. That's my evidence that things are not working. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 01:52:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
I can't see a woman directing battle ships anyway.
What about Margaret Thatcher? Even Reagan liked her.
Ah! The British. Who doesn't like Britain? I like her too. Don't know much about what she did or didn't have to do with her countrys' military. That's their business. It's difficult to judge a Brit, that accent, they always sound intelligent. Hillary sounds and looks low class.
I don't know much about Reagan or his likes and dislikes, it wouldn't matter to me anyway. |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 02:07:54 [Permalink]
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RE Chinese... that's not what I meant- I was referring to the unbelievable trade deficit... much of the enormous volume of our money going to China to buy goods manufactured for nickels on the dollar as opposed to were it produced here is directly translatable to lost jobs, lost tax revenue, and the continued destruction of our manufacturing base. Indirectly, this equates to less money to spend on not only social programs, but defense programs and everything else. There is no comparison between this and the illegal alien problem, not only in terms of the immediate impact of this upon our economic health, but that as projected over the next few decades if these trends remain undeterred (and by all indications, they will.) As far as Asians go, I've known a number and I think they're great people (I'd be a lot better off if I had a fraction of their work ethic and discipline.)
Issues concerning the illegal aliens here in California is what you're referring to- yeah, it causes problems here, and they're extending outward. We're paying a price for the way government knowingly handled the border/illegal issues for decades. I don't know that there's a solution at this point. The problem wasn't created overnight, and both the state and country have more pressing problems at hand now.
Edited to add... Actually, the trade deficit issue with China and other countries in Asia and Latin America with wage structures and costs-of-living completely incomparable to ours is even worse than I described it. For one thing, illegals working within our borders contribute (at least in significant part) back into our economy through spending on basic necessities and other. Money transferred to China for those really neat and cheap TV sets at WalMart, and the like stays in China... in fact, we've extensively funded the massive improvements in both their military, and the improved quality of life of their citizenry in recent years (a humanitarian cause in the latter instance, except that it transpired at the expense of the wages and quality of life of ourn own citizenry. Illegals also contribute here, despite the problems they present, in that they often accomplish many of the dirty, difficult, and mundane tasks many American workers would not prefer to do. Such trade policies have destroyed the job market for software engineering and other things within the US as a comparable piece of software can be produced in India or Pakastan for 20 cents on the dollar... the work perfectly done, all over the Internet. This has already effected the UD Dollar relative to foreign currency on exchanges, and this, too, indirectly has effected the buying power of the US- and indirectly, every citizen. It could make the US Dollar vulnerable to the exploits of international money traders in time. All, very bad things if we continue on our present course.
So, what I was saying was the illegal problem, in perspective, is minor compared to our trace policies having essential brought the labors of billions of workers worldwide to the States without having to go through the cumbersome process of dragging their warm bodies over her, watching out for the Immigration folks or the IRS, etc. etc. |
Ron White |
| Edited by - ronnywhite on 01/11/2006 02:30:02 |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 02:41:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
It's difficult to judge a Brit, that accent, they always sound intelligent. Hillary sounds and looks low class.
Yeah, I heard someone say "In the mind of Americans, a British accent immediately raises someone's IQ by 20 points" and that's somewhat true. Hillary? Idunno. I think she looks OK, but we're not talking about scoping her out for Playboy, here. |
Ron White |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2006 : 23:39:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
It's difficult to judge a Brit, that accent, they always sound intelligent. Hillary sounds and looks low class.
Yeah, I heard someone say "In the mind of Americans, a British accent immediately raises someone's IQ by 20 points" and that's somewhat true. Hillary? Idunno. I think she looks OK, but we're not talking about scoping her out for Playboy, here.
I don't know what the hell you are talking about concerning trade, will have to read it over again. But that is a point about workers taking jobs without even being an illegal. I blame unions, for one thing. And now Gov. Arnold mentioned raising the mimim wage here in Calif. Damn! What good can come of that? Anyone who thinks a $1 more will help instead of hurt is a dumb ass. Arnold is just giving in, I liked him up until his speech last week.
That 20 IQ difference might not just be a perception though. I do believe schools teach better than the USA in many other countries. I write to a couple of people in England, have known one for several years, met him in person, we consider each other good friends, the other person, I don't know as well but one can tell just from the way they write and the way they use the language that they are educated better. BTW, both are 'just average' people. Not college professors or scientists. I bet their equal here (in the USA) would not be as knowledgeable. Those are just a couple of examples, I know so many from other countries who are much more educated. Another friend from Lebanon, she's in her early 30's and is years ahead of her counterparts here. She's amazed at what Americans DON'T know. LOL.
So in conclusion, I say don't raise taxes, put the money we already have into the classroom, not saleries for officals or other programs. |
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