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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 02/01/2006 : 13:46:51 [Permalink]
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beskeptigal composed: quote:
HalfMooner, have I not apologized and explained enough that you should no longer feel the need?
You needn't have apologized in the first place. Your original question as to why I'd bring up Frey/Oprah was valid. Please understand, my "feelings" were never hurt in the least. Our experience with the topic shows that some people shared my view, while many others wanted to express their feeling that other topics were more important. The thread's been middling useful. It's helped me to gain perspective in several ways.
So I'm not really ashamed of the thread, but I almost felt as though Jon Steward was spoofing to it the other day. ; )
He owes me an apology, if anyone. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 14:06:11 [Permalink]
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Snake hissed: quote:
I somewhat remember that phone call thing. Women get hysterical about minor things. Harassment! That could be any number of things to different people.
Are you deliberately trying to push people's emotional buttons, rather than investigate their evidence? It sure looks like it to me. Beskeptigal declined react to the general, provocative, statement that, "Women get hysterical about minor things." But I can't imagine she was not offended, and as a matter of fact, so am I.
First, that was an O'Reilly-like, unevidenced statement. Second, using the word "hysterical" hearkens back to the worst of olde-tyme popular psychology, and rings offensively in this age. Would you care to provide evidence for that particular statement, or are you as unintersted in evidence for that as you seem to be about the evidence Beskeptigal has meticulously given you re: O'Reilly? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 21:52:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Snake, if blatant lies from the mouth of Billy O., recorded on tape or film that have been thoroughly debunked are not enough, then there is nothing that would convince you.
And since I linked to the book on Amazon and you ask where you can get a copy, I draw the conclusion you didn't bother to look at my citations.
When I could see the tapes you are talking about then I'd be able to judge. That would be interesting to see them.
Sorry, didn't see the link you've mentioned.  Will look back over your past posts. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 22:15:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Are you deliberately trying to push people's emotional buttons, rather than investigate their evidence? It sure looks like it to me. Beskeptigal declined react to the general, provocative, statement that, "Women get hysterical about minor things." But I can't imagine she was not offended, and as a matter of fact, so am I.
I'm just so tired of people getting offended over nonsense. Like no one ever called you a name in your life. sigh!
Grow up!
quote:
First, that was an O'Reilly-like, unevidenced statement. Second, using the word "hysterical" hearkens back to the worst of olde-tyme popular psychology, and rings offensively in this age. Would you care to provide evidence for that particular statement
I can still after all these years, hear my mothers harsh shrill voice ringing in my ear as she over reacted to everything I did as a child. And the way she called her sisters all the time to complain about the 'woe' I brought upon her for the day as they gossiped for hours on the phone. Do you want me to recall all the days of my life and each woman I've encountered. I really don't want to, it would only make me more angry.
(in her defence I can say, she should have never been a mother but should have just stayed an RN, in her profession she was as cool as a damp cloth). But then, that wasn't my introduction to women, was it? |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2006 : 23:21:42 [Permalink]
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Snake commented: quote:
Do you want me to recall all the days of my life and each woman I've encountered. I really don't want to, it would only make me more angry.
Fair enough, Snake. I will not press. Meanwhile, I don't accept the sweeping statement you made earlier. My own personal experience differs. (But, since it's as equally anecdotal, my experience is also not evidence.) None of the three women I know best, my mother, my sister, or my daughter could be described as "hysterical," though we all have our moments. (I have carefully refrained from mentioning my recent ex, as that subject would make me angry, and that anecdote might both contradict my theme and make me hysterical.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 03:42:55 [Permalink]
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Snake, maybe you should get out more and meet a few more women than the ones you already know. Sounds like your sample is quite skewed.
I have to mention when I hear the word hysterical that ignorant men of the 1900s believed you cured hysterical women by performing hysterectomies. And for quite a fews years beyond that, they believed masturbating would also induce some kind of insanity.
I am neither insane  nor hysterical, and O'Reilly is still a well documented liar which in my opinion meets the DSM-IV criteria of delusional, formally called pathological liar. Since I have a master's and years of experience, I'm actually licensed in this state to make that diagnosis. And unlike trying to decide if a forum member has the affliction, (another thread) with O'Reilly, I've seen more than enough video (and heard enough audio) of him to feel comfortable the diagnosis is accurate.
I'm sure if you searched the net you could find an audio recording of the voice mail messages that were made public during the lawsuit his producer filed. I believe now that it has come up, it was a female producer rather than an employee. The Amazon link was to the audio book, read by the author. Buy it and you can hear the passage where he reads lines that are incredibly similar to what he said to the producer during his phone sexcapades. Or just drop by you nearest bookstore and look at the book without buying it. From the excerpt I heard, it's a pretty crappy book.
Did you bother to read the Media Matters citations? |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/02/2006 03:43:40 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 12:25:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
> My own personal experience differs. (But, since it's as equally
> anecdotal, my experience is also not evidence.)
If one was talking about scientific facts, testing a drug for example then merely anecdotal 'evidence' of course would not be acceptable but we are talking about emotions and peoples thoughts and perceptions. In that case personal experience is what we have to judge how we feel.
> (I have carefully refrained from mentioning my recent ex, as that
> subject would make me angry, and that anecdote might both
> contradict my theme and make me hysterical.)
LOL. Let me tell you about my x-family someday! I guarantee what ever happened to you, my story will make you feel better. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 12:31:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
> Snake, maybe you should get out more and meet a few more women than
> the ones you already know. Sounds like your sample is quite skewed.
Why? I'm happy the way I am. Just because it's not acceptable by the standards of someone else, I don't have to conform to please them.
> I have to mention when I hear the word hysterical that ignorant men
> of the 1900s believed you cured hysterical women by performing
> hysterectomies. And for quite a fews years beyond that, they
> believed masturbating would also induce some kind of insanity.
Yes, and you forgot to mention that some people still want to think the world is flat. Let's go through all and every advancement of science of the past 500 years. Tomorrow when I have time.
> O'Reilly is still a well documented liar which in my opinion meets
> the DSM-IV criteria of delusional
Whatever the DSM-IV is, you and it can think what you want.
> Since I have a master's and years of experience, I'm actually
> licensed in this state to make that diagnosis.
Whatever subject you have a master's in, it has been my experience that a lot of people who graduate in a field of study are not very well educated (in the experience of life). They might know a little bit about one thing, to me that's not impressive.
If you are talking about psychology I have even less respect for that. I've been to a few mind doctors and the majority of them are so dippsy they don't know their ass from their ear. They are as pretentious as you think O'Reilly is because they don't know what they are doing.
> I've seen more than enough video (and heard enough audio) of him to
> feel comfortable the diagnosis is accurate.
Ok, you know best!!! Seems to me the least a person would need for a diagnosis is to be examined face to face, but you know best!
> I'm sure if you searched the net you could find an audio recording
> of the voice mail messages
Even if I knew where to look, I REALLY don't have time for that.
> The Amazon link was to the audio book, read by the author.
Still haven't seen the link. What is the name of the book?
> he reads lines that are incredibly similar to what he said to the
> producer during his phone sexcapades.
Many explainations could be for that.
> Or just drop by you nearest bookstore and look at the book without
> buying it.
How about the library! I like checking books from there, that way the FBI also knows what I look at.
> Did you bother to read the Media Matters citations?
What IS that? Where is that? If you say how to find it, that would make it easier to know what you are talking about. |
| Edited by - Snake on 02/02/2006 12:38:02 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 13:04:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
I somewhat remember that phone call thing. Women get hysterical about minor things. Harassment! That could be any number of things to different people. Anyone can be accused of anything. Trust me, I know. Even if you are right, not everyone will believe it, just because of being accused. Things get blown out of proportion. It's cheaper and easier to compromise than fight, doesn't mean it represents all the facts of what happened. Once someone says something and even if you are proven right there WILL be those who have second thoughts and question it...forever!
On the other side of the coin...... There are still people who think football players don't kill their wifes! People are going to think what they want, twist or omit facts to make things look the way they want.
U C it your way, I C it mine.
Just to inject a bit of levity, before tackling issues with this part....
What do you call it when a man talks dirty to a woman? Sexual harrassment.
What do you call it whan a woman talks dirty to a man? $3.95 per minute.
(drum fill)
Seriously, O'Reilly's antics were way over the top. To the point that "loofah" becomes a word of terror. She rebuked this guy time and again and he kept getting more insistant. Billy Boy doesn't know the meaning of the word "no".
And the DSM-IV is comparable to a subsection of the ICD-9-CM diagnosis code dictionary for psychiatry. The man lives in a fantasy world. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 15:51:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
.....
What IS that? Where is that? If you say how to find it, that would make it easier to know what you are talking about.
You must have missed the thread I started so as to not hijack this one. Both threads are now hopelessly intertwined. So much for forum protocol.
I'll let you look at that before commenting on your failure to see the evidence that is in front of you.
As to being happy the way you are, I could care less but don't be surprised that people who have been exposed to a reasonable sample of both men and women would not draw the same conclusions as you have about their nature and character.
My master's is in Nursing Science, I'm certified in Family Practice as well as Occupational Health and I'm licensed to diagnose and prescribe medication and treatment in the the State of WA. Since you don't know anything about my practice skills or qualifications other than what I've posted, you are in no position to judge my diagnostic skills as a provider.
As to being able to diagnose without a face to face exam, that depends on what you are diagnosing and what evidence you have to go on. I can guarantee you I could diagnose chicken pox from some photographs alone but certainly wouldn't know a skin cancer lesion without a confirmatory biopsy no matter what it looked like. So it depends on what you are looking at.
For pathological lying, there are very classic signs and symptoms and if you have enough evidence, you can indeed diagnose it without a face to face exam. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 17:00:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Just to inject a bit of levity, before tackling issues with this part....
What do you call it when a man talks dirty to a woman? Sexual harrassment.
What do you call it whan a woman talks dirty to a man? $3.95 per minute.
(drum fill)
Seriously, O'Reilly's antics were way over the top. To the point that "loofah" becomes a word of terror. She rebuked this guy time and again and he kept getting more insistant. Billy Boy doesn't know the meaning of the word "no".
And the DSM-IV is comparable to a subsection of the ICD-9-CM diagnosis code dictionary for psychiatry. The man lives in a fantasy world.
While it is a funny joke it does point out the different ways the same incident can be viewed. Which what I'm trying to say.
When one says something is 'over the top' that's the point.... to who? One mans joking around is another being too serious.
Women say no, but do they mean it? Then there's the case of them saying no after the fact, as it were. Like that idiot Paula Jones, going to a mans hotel room and thinking they are going to 'talk'. Do we know what relationship O'Reilly had with that woman before. Maybe he thought he could joke around from her past reactions. From what I see, many women take things too seriously.
That ICD thingie, is that like... someone tells you he has a pain in his head and you look it up and it says, OH! Pain in rt. side of head, must be insane? Or something like that?
I thought someone said O'Reilly was conservative! If you say he lives in a fantasy world, wouldn't that make him a democrat?
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 18:04:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
> You must have missed the thread I started so as to not hijack this
> one. Both threads are now hopelessly intertwined. So much for forum
> protocol.
Protocol, intertwined, hijacked, let's not make this so complicated.
Do you mean that folder with the name Snake on it? I thought that was rude so never looked at it.
If there are some websites or other information that you haven't posted in this folder than I don't know what you are talking about.
> As to being happy the way you are, I could care less
No one asked you to care, why would you. I don't expect anyone to worry about me just as I don't worry about Bill O'Reilly bothering some woman. It's their problem.
> but don't be surprised that people who have been exposed to a
> reasonable sample of both men and women would not draw the same
> conclusions as you have about their nature and character.
There are too many people who are unreasonable in this world. Too many who take a side and get so offended if someone else either questions it or takes an opposit view.
I don't know what point you are trying to make.
> My master's is in Nursing Science,
Yikes! Another Barbara. Figures!
> As to being able to diagnose without a face to face exam, that
> depends on what you are diagnosing and what evidence you have to go
> on. I can guarantee you I could diagnose chicken pox
We weren't talking about physical diseases. I can diagnose various medical conditions too, big deal!
> So it depends on what you are looking at.
We were looking at..... Mental Problems.
> For pathological lying, there are very classic signs and symptoms
> and if you have enough evidence, you can indeed diagnose it without
> a face to face exam.
Again, I'll ask my doctor. If she confirms your statement I'll let you know. However, I said, I didn't think one could do it. Somehow you sound very defensive and outraged in your reply because of the way you worded some of what you said. I was only questioning the possibility, it sounded odd to be able to read about a person you don't know, read transcripts of what may or may not be accurate, look at movie clips and make a reliable conclusion from afar. Since this is a Skeptic site, I guess I'm allowed to question that.
(people who think they know what someone else is thinking because they learned that from a psych. class, really don't have a clue.) That's my opinion of mental doctors. They are just weird! Maybe you've been around them too long. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 02:44:40 [Permalink]
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It wasn't meant to be rude! I meant it to explain the topic and why I was starting the thread so that others knew it was in response to a discussion with one individual, as opposed to some topic I had a sudden urge to post.
Who's Barbara? Now you are getting a bit rude yourself.
I gave an example of a diagnosis one could make without seeing a patient and you turn it into a straw man of not being an acceptable example. If I were your doctor, I think I'd be annoyed with the irrelevant questions. Don't ask on my account. I don't care what you think of my diagnostic skills. I've been a solo practitioner in private practice for 15 years. I'd say the fact my practice is quite successful speaks for itself.
I'm confident in my assessment of O'Reilly. You ignored the citations I posted supporting my position under the false pretense the title was rude, though you never asked my intent in wording the title. I think we're done here. Should you bother to look at the evidence I'll be happy to take this up again at that time.
Edited to add any further responses will need to be in either a new thread or the intended O'Reilly thread you are avoiding. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/03/2006 15:53:00 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 06:54:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Just to inject a bit of levity, before tackling issues with this part....
What do you call it when a man talks dirty to a woman? Sexual harrassment.
What do you call it whan a woman talks dirty to a man? $3.95 per minute.
(drum fill)
Seriously, O'Reilly's antics were way over the top. To the point that "loofah" becomes a word of terror. She rebuked this guy time and again and he kept getting more insistant. Billy Boy doesn't know the meaning of the word "no".
And the DSM-IV is comparable to a subsection of the ICD-9-CM diagnosis code dictionary for psychiatry. The man lives in a fantasy world.
While it is a funny joke it does point out the different ways the same incident can be viewed. Which what I'm trying to say.
When one says something is 'over the top' that's the point.... to who? One mans joking around is another being too serious.
Women say no, but do they mean it? Then there's the case of them saying no after the fact, as it were. Like that idiot Paula Jones, going to a mans hotel room and thinking they are going to 'talk'. Do we know what relationship O'Reilly had with that woman before. Maybe he thought he could joke around from her past reactions. From what I see, many women take things too seriously.
That ICD thingie, is that like... someone tells you he has a pain in his head and you look it up and it says, OH! Pain in rt. side of head, must be insane? Or something like that?
The ICD-9-CM is a list of codes that have to be filled in on medical claims for Medicare (made industry standard) to describe the diagnosis the doctor has made. This means that when the doctor thinks you're fucking nuts, he writes down 290.11 - Presenile dementia with delirium and your insurance company coughs up the cash for the treatment he gives.
quote:
I thought someone said O'Reilly was conservative! If you say he lives in a fantasy world, wouldn't that make him a democrat?
The lady made it clear in her statements to the police and the depositions that she consistantly rebuked his advances. That he continued to persue her in spite of those rebukes is a sign of that he didn't care how he was making her feel. That he went to such an extreme as to suggest obscene acts with a loofah which would only be appropriate with someone with which you had an established sexual relationship with is so far beyond the pale as to comfortably say he is delusional. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 14:08:41 [Permalink]
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| Comment moved to O'Reilly thread, page 8. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/03/2006 15:55:32 |
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