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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
 Posted - 08/26/2006 : 06:30:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
...Why the hell all the bs rhetoric and name calling in a skepticks forum...Shouldn't there be an attempt at making sure the terms we use actuaky fit?
Peace
Joe
Well, here's how I sees it. It's a question of accuracy. Calling Republicans and Conservatives or even NeoCons "Nazis" is not accurate; (not yet at any rate.) "Nazi" implies for most people, uniformed storm troopers saying "Sieg Heil" and goose steeping around in snappy uniforms. (BTW, calling Liberals "Nazis" is way way Looney. Liberals and progressives are the folks the real Nazi's want to round up in pout in their hideous concentration camps.)
However, calling the Bush administration "fascist" is not completely off the mark if one uses the term as Mussolini preferred it. He called fascism "corporatism" – a conservative state with minimal government regulation of corporations. It includes war and militarism justified by the overt scape-goating of nations whose resources are desired, or justification of war by expedience with strong appeals to patriotism.
I'm reminded of the Danish composer Carl Nielsen who prefaced his 5th Symphony with the words: "Patriotism has become a spiritual syphilis that devours the brains and grins out through empty eye sockets with moronic hate." That's the Bush administration in a nutshell.
The minimal governmet regulation of business comes from the corporatism. This is not a neo-con only problem, but a problem that has run rampant. Would it be inacurate to say it took off with the New Deal?
Joe |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 09:59:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
...The minimal government regulation of business comes from the corporatism. This is not a neo-con only problem, but a problem that has run rampant. Would it be inaccurate to say it took off with the New Deal?
Yes, it would be inaccurate. The New Deal involved massive public works programs initiated by the government. World War II, which erupted thereafter, required even more government run programs to manage mass production and industry which in turn required greater regulation and the care of returning veterans also initiated public programs (such as the G.I. bill,) all of which were basically big government programs beneficial to US society.
Nowadays, distain for an ill-defined big government as expressed primarily by Neocons, Republicans and some Vichy Democrats is I think, a mask for removing past regulations, beneficial or not, which inhibit the profits of corporations and the income of the wealthy. Neocons do not care at all about the common citizen. Many examples include the on-going lackluster efforts by today's FEMA for hurricane Katrina survivors, the cutting of programs to help inner city youth or the recruitment of high school graduates to become cannon fodder in Iraq yet cutting their benefits if and when they return.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2006 : 12:39:30 [Permalink]
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YO, Chippewa: Such clarity and accuracy you write with!
Neocons are much more comfortable without a middle class; just them (the "elite") and the lower class: folks with few or no means and little or no education. So when you hear G. War drop one of his cynical lines about "class warfare," he's referring to the warfare which Neocon-like thinking people make on the lower classes. Of course, he sees "class warfare" as something initiated by the lower class. This is another example of how George War Bush 'misunderinterprets' events and attitudes, which he, as a person with power and responsibilty, could and should take steps to amellorate, i.e. FDR and The New Deal. The Neocons hate anyone who uses government to promote the general welfare, since the only welfare that should be promoted is theirs. No wonder they hate FDR and The New Deal. It's logical, but very un-Christian and, I think, un-American.
OY!
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"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
| Edited by - Orwellingly Yurz on 08/26/2006 12:41:56 |
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2006 : 15:23:15 [Permalink]
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YO: Just THIS In....Rummy Picks Up On The GOP Nazi Talking Point Today.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/29/rumsfeld.ap/index.html
Fascistic Sec'y of Defense is telling us to beware of Nazi-like terrorists, who possess little, if any, notion that they're a special chosen, deserving elite like genuine fascists do.
Rummy, try makin' it real for a change.
OY!
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"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
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Sago
New Member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 15:53:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Plus the eternal reward. I agree, they are not stupid, and it is a mistake to underestimate them in this fashion.
It is a mistake to underestimate those who guide them in their course of action, but it is not likely a mistake to say that most of those those who kill themselves and others are mostly the stupidest of all. Even lawyers can be stupid and malicious. Are you, by chance, under the impression that such acts are really just the acts of individulas alone?
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 20:04:10 [Permalink]
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For accurate naming of Islamic extremists, the Arabic term, jihadi is probably best. Or simply "Islamic fundamentalist."
Bush's use of "Islamic fascism" is way off the mark, adding far more heat than light to the debate, probably in an attempt at misdirection.
Jihadis aim, in general, to establish a Muslim theocracy throughout the world. The root word, jihad, is an old one among the Muslims, describing all forms of struggle for the Muslim faith, including "jihad of the hand" and "jihad of the sword," which are the two forms most likely to cause problems for non-Muslims. Though existing Islamic theocratic states share some of the features and techniques of Fascist (and Stalinist) states, the underlying ideologies are entirely different.
Fascism generally is based upon a mass, right-wing populist political movement. A Fascist party often begins as a socialist movement, but becomes increasingly tied to concepts of extreme nationalism, racism, and militarism. Militarist parades are an essential element of Fascism, with fancy uniforms and precision marching being taken to the extreme of outright fetishism. Rituals, symbols, and ceremonies also are emphasized by Fascism. A "corporate state" (which I think has been largely misunderstood here) is a goal of Fascists. This means they see the state as being a "body" (corpus), with each part doing its proper job, thus ending the evils of class struggle. The Leader, of course, is the brain, the arms the military, and the legs the workers, etc. (Business corporations fit into this picture by supporting and obeying the Leader, and benefiting with patronage in return, as with Albert Speer).
"Jihadi" and "Crusader" are two terms much alike in both meaning and in the hatred the words, for very good historical reasons, inspire in differing parts of the world. In the non-Muslim world, jihadi infers the meaning of a fanatic who does violence in the name of the Muslim faith. The first jihadi was Muhammad, whose religion swept across much of the world, in large part through war. Jihadis in their minds now divide the world in two: "The land of Islam," (where they rule) and "the land of war" (where they do not yet rule). Likewise, Crusaders (both medieval and modern) are hated by Muslims. The historical Crusades were a series of Church-sponsored invasions, lootings, genocides, rapings, and colonizations of Muslim lands by the Christian West.
The negative weight carried by both terms, Crusader and Jihadi, are deserved. Both terms are appropriate and self-applied. President Bush, after 9/11, called his war on terrorism a "Crusade." At the time, I shuddered, thinking of the negative effect this one word would have in "the land of Islam." I thought he'd made a terrible mistake. But his actions since then have shown that his intentions were probably no better than those of the original Crusaders.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2006 : 21:43:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Sago
It is a mistake to underestimate those who guide them in their course of action, but it is not likely a mistake to say that most of those those who kill themselves and others are mostly the stupidest of all. Even lawyers can be stupid and malicious. Are you, by chance, under the impression that such acts are really just the acts of individulas alone?
No. My point was that they are not brainless zombies. You consider these "soldiers" stupid, and just robots following orders? It is obvious that they prove that thought wrong constantly.
Sun Tzu said "He who exercises no forethought but makes light of his opponents is sure to be captured by them." |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/03/2006 21:48:45 |
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