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Rev. Tarthpeigust
New Member
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - 01/28/2002 : 16:10:26 [Permalink]
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Thanks for the compliments, Slater. :-D The writing ability comes from lots and lots of practice. I'm kind of leaning towards being a science teacher. Apparently the U.S. needs more of them, judging from the scores I've seen.
"I believe that the extraordinary should be pursued.
But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
--Carl Sagan |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 16:18:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm kind of leaning towards being a science teacher. Apparently the U.S. needs more of them, judging from the scores I've seen.
Noble cause....but if you become a teacher you can hope to reach a few dozen people at a time.
If you become a writer of science you can reach thousands.
Carl Sagan, whose quote you attach as your profile signature, reached millions.
Just a thought, but it's clear from the quality of your writing that you should aim high.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Badger
Skeptic Friend
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 16:50:33 [Permalink]
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I still don't think it's up to me to attribute meaning to my life. I think it is up to me to live my life to the fullest, and to be the best person I can be.
But my life is insignificant in both the size and timeframe of the universe. Attributing anything to this life is merely playing with insignificant details of the big picture. I would like to know how it all fits together, including insignificant things like you and I.
The above may seem off topic with regards to the subject of faith. It is what I define as my search for faith, as it is something I can know to be true, something that makes sense. And isn't that the same result that believers get from their faith in some god or other?
Just because we're hypnotized, that don't mean we can't dance. - Tonio K. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 17:33:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I still don't think it's up to me to attribute meaning to my life. I think it is up to me to live my life to the fullest, and to be the best person I can be.
Meaning and worth are irrelevant unless you think you don't have them. If you just live your life, and that's enough, then we don't need to create gods for that.
quote:
But my life is insignificant in both the size and timeframe of the universe. Attributing anything to this life is merely playing with insignificant details of the big picture. I would like to know how it all fits together, including insignificant things like you and I.
Why does it have to fit together? Sure, we're insignificant to the entire universe, but so what?
quote:
The above may seem off topic with regards to the subject of faith. It is what I define as my search for faith, as it is something I can know to be true, something that makes sense. And isn't that the same result that believers get from their faith in some god or other?
Sorry, I don't understand. Faith (as it applies to faith in gods) is believing in something that has no good evidence for its existence. What do you know to be true, that makes sense?
[/quote]
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 17:57:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
But my life is insignificant in both the size and timeframe of the universe.
Campbell used to say when asked the "meaning of life" that life has no "meaning". And anyway it wasn't meaning you want from life, it's experience.
Compared to the "sub-atomic world" you're huge. If thinking about galaxeies makes ya feel bad then think about electrons-that'll perk ya right up.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 18:48:43 [Permalink]
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Raised catholic here. Was never interested in religion to begin with. Earliest questioning I can think of was in middle school, when we were studying Roman/Greek mythology. Realized that long ago that was religion, people went to churches to worship these beings. So what is the difference between religion and mythology? The answer I came up with was if anyone still believes in it.
After that didn't give religion much thought at all. Just wasn't a part of my life. Then I got into skepticism, focusing primarily on cults ($cientology mostly). Started looking at weird beliefs and why people believe in them, then into the weird beliefs of christianity. Realized it was just another set of nonsense and dropped it.
Last year even read the bible. Strange how it seems that the average atheist/agnostic is far more knowledgeable on the bible than the average christian. Then again, maybe that is perfectly logical. 
Got a 15 year old nephew who is pretty smart and mature. (and idolizes me  ) Never really discused his beliefs, but he's atheist/agnostic.
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Badger
Skeptic Friend
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 19:28:32 [Permalink]
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Slater, of course you're right about us being huge compared to the subatomic world. I don't need that to perk me up, though. My goats think I'm Gawd because I bring unto them the tasty grains that filleth their bellies, even in the deepest cold. I bring forth sweet waters that quencheth their thirst, and I buildethed them a hovel providing shelter from both cold of night and heat of day. (My tongue always cramps up when I place it this firmly in my cheek)
Gorgo, it's not enough for me to "just life my life". I am driven to be a better person. It's probably a carryover from childhood, but I also think that if one isn't striving to better themselves, one is only taking up oxygen. No, I don't need any gods for me to strive for their approval. But I need context to help me decide what is "better".
With regards to why it has to fit together, for me it does. I've always wanted to know "how" and "why". And I need proof of how and why. I need replicatable results. Obviously, one can't find that in conventional religion.
What do I know to be true, that makes sense? Nothing. I may be a figment of someone's imagination among other possibilities, so I can't even say "I think, therefore, I am." with any certainty.
Just because we're hypnotized, that don't mean we can't dance. - Tonio K. |
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Kaneda Kuonji
Skeptic Friend
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 20:09:49 [Permalink]
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I'll be honest. I'm in this phase right now...I'm currently going for agnostcism, but that the God in question is indifferent to the plight of the world, and that humanity just hasn't caught on yet that how they live their lives is up to them!
I don't know anything about God, and I certainly will not claim to. But evidence points to indifference.
If anyone can give me insight, don't hesitate to do so. I may end up being a Univeralist Unitarian after all...
Rodney Dean, CI Order of the Knights of Jubal
Ivbalis.org
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 20:53:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
But evidence points to indifference.
Lack of evidence points to non-existence. And we're talking severe lack of evidence in light of the claims being made...
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 21:18:06 [Permalink]
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I want to add that I never kept my own children from choosing a faith or belief. I never tell anyone that what they know to be the truth is wrong. We need what we need and for me God is not one of them.
An interseting note here is my daughter is a practicing Jew. My son and his wife and my 3 grandchildren are very active in the Methodist Church and just to wrap up the whole thing my husband and this is the truth was a Catholic Priest. If you think stealing another womans man is something then try being the woman that stole her husband from God. I save that true story for the future.
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Stygma
New Member
36 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 21:41:32 [Permalink]
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I always took Mormonism at face value because of that reason up somewhere on this thread: I thought that hey, there's millions of people that believe the same thing. It's got to have some truth to it. But, a little more than a year ago, about eighth grade, I just began to be fed up with the whole thing. People bawling while giving speeches about how true it all is and how much they love their family and the church. So fed up that I devised a little bingo game to play with my older brother. Each square would have some pathetic, trite phrase on it like 'my heart is full', and whoever won would get rights to the computer when we got home. Presently, I've proudly thrown off all non-factual beliefs and figments of, and live happily a 'closet skeptic.' I still have yet to tell my oh-so-holy mother that it's all a huge load of crap. Such is life.
Thank God I've seen the real light. (ba-doom PSH!)
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 21:48:31 [Permalink]
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i was a pretty good catholic well into college. the first really big religious shock to me was when my father told me that the church admitted the bible was not exactly true and that it was pretty clear that the authors exagerated a lot.
finally, after much soul searching, i could not find any reason to believe any of that theistic nonsense. issac assimov also influenced me greatly. in high school i read one of his stories that had a theme about the meaning of the universe. the conclusion was that life was an accident and the universe has no purpose. i was shocked-but his point of view seemed so reasonable that i had to consider it.
although i have been an athiest for more than 30 years, i still respect the catholic church for giving up the doctrine of inerrancy and literal truth of the bible. as christians go, the catholics at least do not deny physical reality over dogma.
comrade billyboy
Edited by - comradebillyboy on 01/28/2002 21:52:32 |
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Megan
Skeptic Friend
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 22:09:22 [Permalink]
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I don't think I can really recall when I lost my faith. I just remember going to church one day and listening to the pastor and questioning what he was saying. It kinda scared me because I thought that I was supposed to believe it. Then I talked to Lisa about it and look where I am now!
And question here:
Does anyone besides me think that it is wrong for a parent, guardian, or someone to make you believe/go to church??
~Megan~
"If in the last few years you haven't discarded a major opinion or acquired a new one, check your pulse. You may be dead." - Zandermann |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2002 : 23:52:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Does anyone besides me think that it is wrong for a parent, guardian, or someone to make you believe/go to church??
This is a tough question here: these people actually think they're helping you, whether you like it or not. It is the duty of a parent to do what is best for his/her child. I feel it is wrong to force somebody to believe anything, but taking you along to church is much more questionable. I really don't know.
-me. |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2002 : 04:50:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
If you think stealing another womans man is something then try being the woman that stole her husband from God.
This is a description we don't often here, but it gives me more sympathy into his plight: god is a cuckold. The stuff of movies here...
quote:
Does anyone besides me think that it is wrong for a parent, guardian, or someone to make you believe/go to church??
No, it is not wrong. The presentation of opinions and of beliefs are never wrong. It is only the restriction of knowledge that is wrong.
So until the parents couple the mandatory church attendance with a prohibition on the search for contradictory knowledge, I have no problem with it.
My kids still love me. |
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