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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
 Posted - 05/26/2001 : 01:35:11 [Permalink]
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Yup, got a flame war going between me and "dave" over at the BA board :(
HELP
I hate arguing with these nutcases.
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2001 : 12:50:15 [Permalink]
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Rift, ignore him. I read through the thread and there's nothing you can say or show him that will change his mind. He knows there's a face on Mars because he wants there to be a face on Mars. If we stuffed Dave in a rocket (now there's a thought), and sent him to Mars, he would indeed see just a mesa. However, he'd probably convince himself the space aliens, NASA, the Illuminati, or heck, Trish, Rubysue and I got there first and altered the features to further the "coverup".
Lisa
Who do you serve? Who do you trust? |
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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2001 : 16:13:35 [Permalink]
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Hey, Rift, the guy's a total loser (and Hoagland is certifiably insane - we all know that). It's not worth poppin' a gasket over (that's easy for me to say - I posted the JFK moon speech yesterday and had some other "dave" make some snotty comment about how simple it is to make an appeal to patrioism if the issues are "easy". This got me spun up into a rubysue rant because I have always admired how JFK delivered a speech; I wasn't being an apologist for the man, but this clown apparently wanted to get into some political debate).
Yup, sometimes these morons will "push the right buttons". Here's a boring story: The day after the moon hoax show first aired in February I made the deadly mistake of going into the Fox Forum. I came home from work all spun up because I had heard about the show from my co-workers. We all work in the space business and my co-workers know better, but they thought that the Fox show had "some valid points". I was absolutely and completely enraged, so much so that I startled some of these guys with the vigor of my response (you've read my stories about Apollo and its powerful influence on me, so you can see why I would hit the ceiling). I got home and my hubby (who also deeply loves space exploration) was already into the flame wars on the Fox forum. It was a Friday night, a night for relaxing after a week at work and we both spent about five hours insulting the hell out of the illiterate goons who were waving the hoax flag. I didn't sleep a wink that night because my blood pressure was probably 200 over 120 and I spent a lot of Saturday doing the same thing, like some sick masochist. We went out for dinner and I sat there feeling more and more depressed, because I absolutely and to the depths of my being, HATE the lie that the moon hoaxers have created. My hubby looked up while we were having another beverage and saw that I had tears rolling down my face. Of course, at this point in my life, unexplained tears are not uncommon (no menopause jokes, please), but my heart was literally aching with the sadness I felt about this evil garbage. I can smirk at the Hoaglanders, roll my eyes at the Creationists, and giggle at the New Agers (and usually walk away just shaking my head at their delusions). But the moon hoaxers press a personal hot button with me. By Sunday of that weekend, I was an emotional wreck - I had called people nasty names and said things in messages that I would never dream of saying to people, much less to someone I've never met.
That's when I made a vow to step back, take a deep breath, and see what Phil Plait had to say about this trash. I consider the Bad Astronomy board to be an oasis in the midst of this storm of stupidity (and now the SFN looks like another great place to share these thoughts). I have never gone back to the Fox Forum and I have avoided (for the most part) getting into flame wars (by the way, don't try the infidels.org board if you value your health - although most of the posters there are skeptics and non-believers, they are a NASTY crowd spoiling for a fight; even if you post something that looks like it should be right up their alley they're rip it apart if you say anything that's "out of line" to their unwritten orthodoxy).
Boy can I babble on! Have a cold beverage and watch a ballgame. This will give Hoagland time to see tigers and Maori warriors in the Cydonia mesa photos.
rubysue 
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2001 : 16:42:50 [Permalink]
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That's a heck of a story and I can sympathize. I was really worked up by that show as well. Not only was the argument pathetic, but the part about the government killing the Apollo 1 astronauts pushed me over the edge. We had some discussion about it on our old forum. Since i have some extra time this weekend, i am going to try to get the old forum posted here as an archive.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2001 : 22:14:01 [Permalink]
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I didn't watch the Fox show on purpose. I new I'd get upset.
The HBers bug me, the ufo nuts bug me, 'the einstien was wrong' idiots bug me, so do the creationists and the geocentricts (related species) but there is something about Hoagland that just infuriates me. I'm not really sure what it is. Although i can go off on the others, i'm like a powder keg around hoagland nuts. I think it's because I see him as the snake oil salesman he really is. Most of the others are rather sincere, if stupid, he's just a lying, conniving, sneaky little man.
The man uses old 1950's view master slides to prove his point, for goodness sakes...
Hey @tomic, I think this is going to becoming a ranting board for us BAers to say things Phil won't let us say over on his board, lol.
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2001 : 22:25:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think it's because I see him as the snake oil salesman he really is. Most of the others are rather sincere, if stupid, he's just a lying, conniving, sneaky little man.
Rift: you're giving snake oil salesman a bad name...
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2001 : 22:29:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hey @tomic, I think this is going to becoming a ranting board for us BAers to say things Phil won't let us say over on his board, lol.
Is it particularly strict there? I noticed the rules posted but you can never be sure exactly how rules are enforced.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2001 : 22:59:59 [Permalink]
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@tomic The BA has a line that if you cross he'll delete. But he will warn you if you nudge or step on the line. He definitely does not approve of profanity on his board since many youngsters visit his board. Then this is the purpose of his board, to debunk or show the fallicy of Bad Astronomy.
Spinnin' my wheels and gettin' no where - fast |
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2001 : 23:08:23 [Permalink]
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It's not particularly strict over there, but He won't allow flame wars to go on for very long, which is probably a good thing. He does have a lot of kids reading his website so I agree with him on this.
He doesn't like deleting posts, but he will do it.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2001 : 00:10:57 [Permalink]
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I would have to agree about flame wars. They serve no purpose other than getting people all riled up.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2001 : 00:46:24 [Permalink]
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I've only been over there for a month or so, and I haven't seen too much deleting. One was from someone only identified as "u", and the text contained nothing but an obscenity. The only person I've seen banned is a gentleman who called himself "Jack White". Don't know how much you go over there, but this guy was a piker. His tactic was "post and run". He could draw the most outragous conclusions from any Apollo shot. He was amusing at first, but quickly became irritating. All of his stuff was easily debunked, but he'd never debate, just post a bunch more of what he thought were "a-ha!" pictures. Many had been altered with Photoshop. The Board members and BA finally got fed up, so BA gave him the boot.
There's a difference between a flame war, and heated discussion. When this guy would make his fifteenth post of the day, with some altered picture, and say in essence "Can't you idiots see we never went to the Moon?!", he's crossed the line.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2001 : 14:20:43 [Permalink]
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FYI BA has not banned Jack White. Apparently he's just quit posting. Oh well! We may yet hear from the fruitloop again. Eek!
Spinnin' my wheels and gettin' no where - fast |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2001 : 14:36:31 [Permalink]
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I kinda remember the post BA had when all this mess was going on. I think he said he wrote to the guy about his post and scoot tactics. Jack dened making the posts. BA pointed out that post and run wasn't appreciated. No, I guess it wasn't a banning, more a "don't let the door hit you on the butt".
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2001 : 14:53:33 [Permalink]
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Look under Megans questions about Jack. He pretty much said he didn't have to ban him, he just quit on his own.
Spinnin' my wheels and gettin' no where - fast |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2001 : 17:58:30 [Permalink]
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chuckle...doesn't matter if Jack White fell or if he was pushed
as long as he's finished with his post and run tactics
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