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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2008 : 21:55:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
[quote] now caleb has found the [size] forum tags, and in two threads thinks that argumentum ad big letters buys him something. And he's lecturing us about inflation?! 
The guy ridicules himself.
Hey, caleb: tell us again about how Obama's failure to engage in illegal activity really means that he won't be looking out for the welfare of the citizenry.
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Way to not argue the point.
Now, back to the topic... |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2008 : 21:56:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Originally posted by H. Humbert
So the red herrings of our troll aside, what do the rest of you skeptics think about the bailout plan?
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Manifesto
of the Communist Party
1848
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state |
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Anyone...anyone...???
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2008 : 23:08:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Way to not argue the point. |
This coming from the guy who won't defend his assertions of fact? Brilliant projection you've got going on there, caleb. Tell us how Obama made money "off the backs of the poor" by suing Citibank. Tell us how you know Obama won't give a damn about U.S. citizens because he won't break campaign law. Tell us about how scientists are engaged in shenanigans because they won't say that something they haven't identified is not something you made up.
Better yet, just tell us about how you know that Obama's mother was a whore. Because that, of course, is the point of his candidacy. Then you'll have the standing to criticize people for not arguing some point or other. Make a compelling and clear argument for how Obama's dead mother's alleged sexual proclivities are relevant to his potential presidency, and then I'll grant you free reign here to chastize others for going off-topic.
Plus, you'd better reply to Kil's post in some sort of useful way.
 Official Warning
calebjones1234, you've got around a half-dozen substantive points to respond to, a situation of your own creation. How likely do you think it is that you will continue to be welcome here if you continue to do little but yank our collective chains? This is your second warning. |
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 06:10:29 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| I have simply pointed out the silly charge by Nancy Pelosi that this is all the pubs fault... |
No, you were trying to blame it all on Barney Frank for a while, even after you were reminded that Frank was not in control of either the committee, the House, or the Democrats. |
No, I was using BF as the poster child to defeat Ms. Pelosi's notion that the entire bailout mess can be blamed on the Republicans. Pelosi is behind my BF rant. I should know I am me.
| Of course, it appears that you may just be parroting Fox News, Bill. Get this: |
I got my information from wikki. You seem to be the one hung up on Fox News.
Yet you would rather ignore this activity and blame Bush because he could not get his attempt to supervise Freddie and Fannie through because of all these lies and false accusations about this being some witch hunt on the poor.
It's funny to see you claim that the Republicans who voted against that bill did so out of cowardice. Hell, according to Fox News' Bret Baier,
But fearing that they didn't have the votes to pass it, Republicans didn't even bring it up on the Senate floor |
First off I have never said that Republicans are free from blame. My only rant is that to make the claim that the Democrats are is laughable.
I am sure it was tough to get the votes when the ranking Democrat on the Finance Services committee is making claims such as:
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and this:
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
-Barney Frank-
He next goes on about anybody voting to put pressure on Freddie and Fannie are in fact voting to cut off monies that will put poor people in housing. Therefore anybody who wants to see Freddie or Fannie supervised are for putting poor people out on the street.
| Actually, there were two bills offered to the Senate on this subject, S.1508 and S.1656. The Library of Congress doesn't show a record of the latter being voted on in committee. McCain was a co-sponsor of S.1508, but not of the other. S.1508 was "Ordered to be reported" by the committee, but that's the last thing that happened to it, on April 1, 2004. |
Yet Pelosi claims this whole thing is a Republican creation with never an attempt to fix it?!?!
| So the Republicans (who controlled Congress) never put any of three bills for Freddie/Fannie oversight to more than a single committee vote. Bush, as the leader of the controlling party at that point in time, is clearly at fault for not being able to rally his party's members and for not introducing legislation that could have been passed. |
And Teflon Barney walks away with no responsibility even though when warned of the coming mess he spouts off:
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and this:
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms o |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 08:28:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
He continues this delusion/lie all the way up to the flop. |
Yeah, nevermind that in 2005, Barney Frank was pushing for regulation of the FMs. So which are you, Bill, lying or delusional?| So Bush, who was the one pushed the warning but failed to get enough to act, is blamed for the mess while those who thwarted the attempt at supervision skate. Nice
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Saying that Frank "thwarted the attempt" is to give him way too much power. But you have to dress Frank up as a boogeyman with control of the entire Congress, or else admit that the Republicans didn't care enough to fix a problem they identified themselves. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 09:15:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
How is creating almost 1 Trillion NEW dollars going to help?
You do understand that when NEW dollars are created and there is no commensurate increase in real wealth that that dollars in your pocket devalue
This means that your past labor has been devalued, do you understand?
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How can you say that they are printing new dollars for that purpose? I still have no direct evidence of that (your link does not count; it has been debunked already).
My past labour is not being devalued. I am still alive from the food I bought with the money; my tuition fees are still paid and nobody came to get back the books I bought with the cash I had left.
That'd also mean that the debts are getting devalued too. Which is actually good news for most Americans.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 12:04:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Originally posted by calebjones1234
How is creating almost 1 Trillion NEW dollars going to help?
You do understand that when NEW dollars are created and there is no commensurate increase in real wealth that that dollars in your pocket devalue
This means that your past labor has been devalued, do you understand?
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How can you say that they are printing new dollars for that purpose? I still have no direct evidence of that (your link does not count; it has been debunked already).
My past labour is not being devalued. I am still alive from the food I bought with the money; my tuition fees are still paid and nobody came to get back the books I bought with the cash I had left.
That'd also mean that the debts are getting devalued too. Which is actually good news for most Americans.
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Your food costs more today than before.
Your past labor for which you were paid in dollars has been devalued because you can today purchase less food with the money than you could have purchased when you were payed.
You are exactly why this is happening, you have no understanding but attempt to speak with authority.
Guess what Simon, no one on this forum; there are two that are bright enough and do understand what is happening, is going to explain it to you.
You see, ignorant people are better controlled. |
| Edited by - calebjones1234 on 10/05/2008 12:05:55 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 13:51:55 [Permalink]
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I actually have some basis in economy. Not a lot, sure, but I would not qualify myself as 'ignorant'.
Devaluation, and the fall of the American dollar, as a few consequences.
One is, indeed, the short term rise in living costs. Short term, because as prices increase, companies are able to sell their product for more, and hence to pay their employees better. In the longer term, it is not a leading factor as to how well people live.
It also increase the cost of importing. This is, actually, a significant factor in the actual prices of supplies.
It tends, however, to favour local economy toward imported goods. So, it is not entirely detrimental and help the trade balance to be more equilibrated.
It also make export easier.
Japan, for example, has been to great length to keep its currency low.
It also tends to 'reduce' debt which is essentially neutral for the economy but good news for most citizens.
Of course, your point that my 'past work' has been devalued would only makes sense if I invested that money. It is not the case, I consumed all of it and devaluation can't touch that. That's what I was getting too. I guess I was not clear.
In fact, because the prices have been increasing, the items I bought have not lost their value as fast at they would have otherwise. In this sense I am, marginally, winning. That's the reason why so many people are investing in gold and jewellery this days.
But what do I know? I am just ignorant. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 16:22:54 [Permalink]
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"Gold" and "jewellery"? I've got Balance Growth Mutual Funds with the Royal Bank here in Canada. I'm going to be checking things out with the banker soon enough. Would it actually be advisable to switch to gold?
You see, I'm really ignorant.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 16:44:50 [Permalink]
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Depends... I am not sure how good is the Canadian economy faring.
Also depends how you expect the situation to evolve. Is it going to be just a small snag in the economy or is it going to become a long term crisis? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 16:50:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Guess what Simon, no one on this forum; there are two that are bright enough and do understand what is happening, is going to explain it to you. |
I like that a guy who honestly can't put together a coherent sentence is trying to lecture on who is ignorant and who isn't. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 17:46:02 [Permalink]
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Despite all the people hoarding canned goods and ammunition, stock in Smith & Wesson has been dropping.
I'm investing in coffee cans and shovels, 'cause when the banks fail, people are going to go back to burying their cash. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 18:06:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Despite all the people hoarding canned goods and ammunition, stock in Smith & Wesson has been dropping.
I'm investing in coffee cans and shovels, 'cause when the banks fail, people are going to go back to burying their cash. |
Actually, a friend of mine bailed on all stocks, or 80% of them, for cash. For the last week and a half, he's been pretty happy about that. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 18:23:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Actually, a friend of mine bailed on all stocks, or 80% of them, for cash. For the last week and a half, he's been pretty happy about that. |
Yeah, I'm wondering when some smart economist is going to say, "today the market fell far enough that even with taxes and a 10% penalty, everyone should have cashed out their 401(k)s back in late September." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 19:15:48 [Permalink]
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But this will only help the stock's fall... Which in turn is contributing to them falling deeper... And so on.
This is absolutely not an advice. Don't trust me on that. But; I would not expect the stocks to go down indefinitely.
Maybe, just maybe, the stock will stabilize after the election (newly elected leaders often get a period of grace as many people trust them... at least a little).
By then, the bubble should be as well deflated as Lance Armstrong's scrotum. So, I would expect that the stocks will be at their lower a bit before the election.
So, if I had any money to invest, it is when I would put it in stocks... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Bailout rejected by the House
