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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2008 : 19:59:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
But this will only help the stock's fall... Which in turn is contributing to them falling deeper... And so on. |
That's what got to me last Thursday. Tons of people in Congress and elsehwere saying, "we'd better pass this bill this time, 'cause look what happened on Monday when we did not!" The question is, though: would the market have dipped so low if there hadn't been any bail-out bill at all? Of course the market is going to take a tumble when a bill promising traders billions of dollars fails, but if that promise hadn't been offered, would the traders have noticed? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 21:32:46 [Permalink]
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No; I don't think so... Although the case could be made that some people were considering selling their stocks and decided to keep them in the hope that the bill would help them picking back in value.
To an extend, the 'promise' of the bill probably limited the drop for a while and what we saw on Thursday was the stocks catching up.
Stock exchange is partly applied psychology. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 04:51:17 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Yeah, nevermind that in 2005, Barney Frank was pushing for regulation of the FMs. So which are you, Bill, lying or delusional? |
So Barney Frank pushes for regulation in 2005 with no success and he is awesome?
While in 2003 Bush pushed for regulation of Freddie and Fannie with no success and the whole mess is his fault?
While BF was a part of opposition that opposed the regulation as Franklin Raines had Fannie completely under control?
It is very dangerous to blindly pledge your allegiance to one party and I would advise against it.
Your insistence that this is the fault of the Republicans in light of characters such as Frank demonstrates your blind allegiance.
The facts show that many droped the ball and that some threw the ball down and Mr. Barney Frank is right there among them all. "It's everybody's fault but me!" Boo Hoo Hoo...
| So Bush, who was the one pushed the warning but failed to get enough to act, is blamed for the mess while those who thwarted the attempt at supervision skate. Nice
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Saying that Frank "thwarted the attempt" is to give him way too much power. |
He was a part of the thwarting team.
| But you have to dress Frank up as a boogeyman |
He has done that all himself. I just call him on it.
| or else admit that the Republicans didn't care enough to fix a problem they identified themselves. |
I have already acknowledged that Frank is a master politician. Sure it will be tough to get votes when Frank, the highest dem on the finance committee, is out making statements in the media such as:
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
The spin Frank puts on the issue makes anybody voting for regulating Freddie and Fannie to be against poor people and voting yes on this bill is a vote to put poor people on the street.
From a political stand point Frank was brilliant. Making the Republicans look like heartless thugs who oppress poor people if they vote for regulation. On the other hand hang the collapse of Freddie and Fannie on the Republicans when it does happen and then claim they did nothing to fix the situation when they knew a situation was there. Brilliant... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 06:50:19 [Permalink]
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| At lest; some people are all for it.. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 07:26:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Depends... I am not sure how good is the Canadian economy faring.
Also depends how you expect the situation to evolve. Is it going to be just a small snag in the economy or is it going to become a long term crisis?
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They're saying something like a rear long recession. My Mutual Funds I'm planning to use for retirement in about 30 years. My plan was to keep contributing to them for that long.
I'll be making an appointment with my banker this week to see what to do; I suspect she'll say that with the market down, now would be a good time to buy mutual funds since they'll be cheaper; I've seen tht advice already in the financial column in a newspaper up here.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 07:53:15 [Permalink]
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| Yeah... I would not expect them to fall indefinitely... But, once again, I am no economist. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 09:58:44 [Permalink]
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Bill, I'll give you this. Even though the Republicans really are heartless thugs who don't care about poor people, the Democrats made mistakes that helped to cause the crisis were in now. In general though, deregulation has been the Republican mantra for the last twenty years...
On balance, I think the Republicans are significantly more responsible for the crisis were in now. But the Democrats are not without blame. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 10:05:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Bill, I'll give you this. Even though the Republicans really are heartless thugs who don't care about poor people, the Democrats made mistakes that helped to cause the crisis were in now. In general though, deregulation has been the Republican mantra for the last twenty years...
On balance, I think the Republicans are significantly more responsible for the crisis were in now. But the Democrats are not without blame.
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Barney Frank is awesome. -Dave W.-
*WASHINGTON Unqualified home buyers were not the only ones who benefitted from Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank's efforts to deregulate Fannie Mae throughout the 1990s.*
So did Frank's partner, a Fannie Mae executive at the forefront of the agency's push to relax lending restrictions.
Now that Fannie Mae is at the epicenter of a financial meltdown that threatens the U.S. economy, some are raising new questions about Frank's relationship with Herb Moses, who was Fannie's assistant director for product initiatives. Moses worked at the government-sponsored enterprise from 1991 to 1998, while Frank was on the House Banking Committee, which had jurisdiction over Fannie.
Both Frank and Moses assured the Wall Street Journal in 1992 that they took pains to avoid any conflicts of interest. Critics, however, remain skeptical.
"It's absolutely a conflict," said Dan Gainor, vice president of the Business & Media Institute. "He was voting on Fannie Mae at a time when he was involved with a Fannie Mae executive. How is that not germane?
"If this had been his ex-wife and he was Republican, I would bet every penny I have - or at least what's not in the stock market - that this would be considered germane," added Gainor, a T. Boone Pickens Fellow. "But everybody wants to avoid it because he's gay. It's the quintessential double standard."
A top GOP House aide agreed.
"C'mon, he writes housing and banking laws and his boyfriend is a top exec at a firm that stands to gain from those laws?" the aide told FOX News. "No media ever takes note? Imagine what would happen if Frank's political affiliation was R instead of D? Imagine what the media would say if [GOP former] Chairman [Mike] Oxley's wife or [GOP presidential nominee John] McCain's wife was a top exec at Fannie for a decade while they wrote the nation's housing and banking laws."
Frank's office did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
Frank met Moses in 1987, the same year he became the first openly gay member of Congress.
"I am the only member of the congressional gay spouse caucus," Moses wrote in the Washington Post in 1991. "On Capitol Hill, Barney always introduces me as his lover."
The two lived together in a Washington home until they broke up in 1998, a few months after Moses ended his seven-year tenure at Fannie Mae, where he was the assistant director of product initiatives. According to National Mortgage News, Moses "helped develop many of Fannie Mae's affordable housing and home improvement lending programs."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432501,00.html |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 10:41:16 [Permalink]
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I'm suppose to trust Fox News? All I could find is right wing bloggers and Fox News making the above claims.
Might be nice to get a neutral news agency to report on the Fox claims. In the meantime, there is this:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200809210007 |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 11:27:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
I'm suppose to trust Fox News? All I could find is right wing bloggers and Fox News making the above claims.
Might be nice to get a neutral news agency to report on the Fox claims. In the meantime, there is this:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200809210007
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Really? I found it all over the net. That Moses was an excutive at Fannie while being Barney Frank's lover at the same time. All while Frank sat on the FC. And we thought Chenny and Haliburtan had a conflect of interest?!?!? Sheeese....
So in 2003 the Bush administration warns that Freddie and Fannie are in need of supervision. As the highest ranking Deomcrat on the FC Barney says that:
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
Yet Barney has a change of heart and in 2007, 3 months after he gets his chairman position, he dicedes Freddie and Fannie do need supervision. Well we all know how that ended. To little to late, congressman. Yet he still found a way to blame it all on the Bush administration. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 10/06/2008 11:29:28 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 11:46:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Kil
I'm suppose to trust Fox News? All I could find is right wing bloggers and Fox News making the above claims.
Might be nice to get a neutral news agency to report on the Fox claims. In the meantime, there is this:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200809210007
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Really? I found it all over the net.
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Then why use Fox as a source? You come to the den of liberals and independents, trying to convince us of something, and you use the most right biased news agency as your source? Not very logical if you ask me. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 12:34:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Kil
I'm suppose to trust Fox News? All I could find is right wing bloggers and Fox News making the above claims.
Might be nice to get a neutral news agency to report on the Fox claims. In the meantime, there is this:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200809210007
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Really? I found it all over the net.
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Then why use Fox as a source? You come to the den of liberals and independents, trying to convince us of something, and you use the most right biased news agency as your source? Not very logical if you ask me.
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So are you questioning whether Barney Frank and Herb Moses were lovers while Frank wrote legislation for Fannie and Moses was an exuctive for Fannie? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 12:46:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Yet Barney has a change of heart and in 2007, 3 months after he gets his chairman position, he dicedes Freddie and Fannie do need supervision. |
Frank's change-of-heart was no later than 2005.| Well we all know how that ended. |
Yup: the efforts both easily passed the House, and died in the Senate. How, again, is it Frank's fault? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 13:03:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Bill scott
Yet Barney has a change of heart and in 2007, 3 months after he gets his chairman position, he dicedes Freddie and Fannie do need supervision. |
Frank's change-of-heart was no later than 2005.| Well we all know how that ended. |
Yup: the efforts both easily passed the House, and died in the Senate. How, again, is it Frank's fault?
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How is it Bush's fault? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 13:38:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
How is it Bush's fault? |
Republicans tried four times (three in 2003 and once in 2005) with a Republican-controlled House and Senate (and with lots of Democrat support in 2005), and still couldn't get things done, because the Republican-lead Senate committee refused to hold hearings or otherwise take action on the bills (except for one time in 2003, when Republican Senate leadership sandbagged their own bill). And in 2007, it was over half the Republicans saying "we don't want this."
Bush, as the head of the National Republican Party, bears responsibility for Republican failures to pass Republican-sponsored legislation to fix this Republican-spotted problem. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bailout rejected by the House
