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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2009 : 21:08:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Isn't it the case that whenever there's a discussion of a famous person's death or serious illness, Bill scott chimes in that we at SFN take glee when said person is a fundamentalist/Christian, but are sad when said person is a scientists/atheist? And hasn't this generally been shown to be wrong each time?
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Indeed. And Bill's not completely wrong, with some of us.
Unlike many of us here, I'm at times a bit of a hater. It's perhaps a character flaw with me. I was delighted with the death of Jerry Falwell. But I wasn't happy for his death because he was a self-described Christian. That wasn't a factor at all. I was happy to hear of Falwell's death because the overwhelming net product of Falwell's life was to promote the foulest bigotry, hate, superstition and material self-aggrandizement. IMO, the world is, in balance, a better place without the likes of Jerry Falwell.
Were Stephen Hawking an evangelical (but not bigoted) Christian and scientist, I would still be rooting for his survival, so he could continue to add his brilliant thinking to our quest for knowledge. Even if he instead spent all his intellectual powers in Christian apologetics, I would neither wish him harm, nor would I mock him as a "slobbering" cripple.
Many if not most of us will go through that state at some time in our mortal span. It strikes me as profoundly frightening to consider being disabled like that, and recalling that I once gleefully mocked a better man for being in the same condition.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/22/2009 01:39:16 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 05:22:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by SimonAlso, let me state that if I'd were to choose between getting Hawkins' body and mind or yours, I would go for the wheelchair in a heartbeat... |
Shocking. |
For an ignoramus as you, who revel and actively strive to being clueless, I bet it is.
| Hawkins might be the greatest mind alive. |
That's opinion. |
Consider this: there are millions of scholars who agree with Simon of this.
| His contribution to our understanding of the universe is probably unequalled in this generation. |
What makes you say that?
| And yet, small minded bigots don't hesitate to convince themselves that they are ho so much better and more enlighten than he is and brag and patronize about it. |
I never said any such thing. |
It's part of the pathology of the holier-than-though Christians. Perhaps he thought it was implied because you exhebit so many other of its traits.
I was simply concerned about his eternal destiny.
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His eternal destiny will be the legacy of his work in Astrophysics, remembered for generations to come.
You will rot in the ground and become worm-food, and when your grandchildren gets old enough to to tell their children about you, the children will say "yeah, yeah, Can I uplink to PlayStation-42 now?".
You will soon be forgotten by anyone who is still alive. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 05:22:31 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| My point is/was/continues to be that whether Hawkings makes a full recovery to pre or post wheelchair is irrelevant, he is still going to die. And this fate is shared by us all. |
So why waste time with irrelevancies like invisible dieties? |
Why "trust in modern medicine and science, and the stamina of a man, and then hope for the best" when the best that can be hoped for is a pitiful existence in a dark cruel world? Why fixate on the finite when the infinite is at hand?
| My prayer was that Hawkings would come to grips with his need for a Redeemer before it is too late and his journey into eternity begins. I desire this for Hawkings sake and no other reason. |
Why? Neither Hawkings nor you nor anyone else gets to do anything of any value after death, regardless of one's destination. |
Because one's eternal destination is still changeable before death.
| Based on my own merits I shudder at the thought of standing before God with nothing but my own righteousness. What a naked feeling that would be. |
I would guess that's because you have so little self-worth that you think yourself beneath the consideration of a self-described whining, codependent bully. Too bad for you. |
Huh?
| Those are my motives for Kil and all to see, that no more guess work may be required. |
But your whole rationale for wanting this for Hawkings is guesswork. Otherwise, you would have laid out the argument correctly by now and we'd all be Christians. |
But at least Kil no longer needs to read my mind for motive.
Wow, is that ever annoying. Everything you write is opinion, Bill, so it's the height of hypocrisy to use that to criticize others. |
Well annoying or not when someone claims that Hawking is one of the greatest minds in the last 100 years I am simply going to remind them that that is their opinion, rather then get bogged down over some side tangent conversation about the All Century Mind Club.
| Since I figure you try to live by the Golden Rule, here is my Bill scott-flavored reply to your last post: |
My point is/was/continues to be that whether Hawkings makes a full recovery to pre or post wheelchair is irrelevant... |
That's opinion. |
I would agree.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 05:34:43 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
And Bill's not completely wrong, with some of us.
Unlike many of us here, I'm at times a bit of a hater. It's perhaps a character flaw with me. I was delighted with the death of Jerry Falwell. |
At least the man is honest. I'll have to give him that. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 05:36:10 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse |
| Hawkins might be the greatest mind alive. |
That's opinion. |
Consider this: there are millions of scholars who agree with Simon of this. |
Still opinion.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 06:14:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse |
| Hawkins might be the greatest mind alive. |
That's opinion. |
Consider this: there are millions of scholars who agree with Simon of this. |
Still opinion.
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Yes, but six orders of magnitude more aggreed to be true.
Besides, you're not offering someone greater, with an argument as to why that person would be greater.
I hold your opinion to be worthless.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 06:38:39 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse |
| Yes, but six orders of magnitude more aggreed to be true. |
It's still just their opinion
| Besides, you're not offering someone greater, with an argument as to why that person would be greater. |
Even if I did it would still just be my opinion.
| I hold your opinion to be worthless. |
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 07:22:57 [Permalink]
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Is it opinion or the logical conclusion reached by people familiar with his work?
I am, vaguelly, curious about which leaving person you think out-smart Hawking so clearly. But then, the answer will probably annoys me. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 08:56:10 [Permalink]
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Bill Scott:
But at least Kil no longer needs to read my mind for motive. |
The explanation of your intent looks very much like someone working hard to extract his foot from his mouth. And that leaves me with this. I was right, or you botched your pointless point with that "few more years to sit in his wheelchair and slobber on himself" comment. Add to that the prayer that could have been done honestly, and more importantly in this case, privately. Instead you chose to post it on a skeptic site, and so I'm still going with the likelihood that your post was bait.
No, I am not a mind reader. But I didn't just roll off the back end of a turnip truck either.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 14:51:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Why "trust in modern medicine and science, and the stamina of a man, and then hope for the best"... |
Who does that? The trust isn't the ends, it's the means to something of value.| ...when the best that can be hoped for is a pitiful existence in a dark cruel world? |
That's true for everyone.| Why fixate on the finite when the infinite is at hand? |
Because "the infinite" has zero value for anyone.| Because one's eternal destination is still changeable before death. |
But the value of the two destinations is the same: none.| Based on my own merits I shudder at the thought of standing before God with nothing but my own righteousness. What a naked feeling that would be. |
I would guess that's because you have so little self-worth that you think yourself beneath the consideration of a self-described whining, codependent bully. Too bad for you. |
Huh? |
I said, Bill, that the reason you're terrified of "standing before God" is that you've got so little self-esteem that you crave the approval of that demented twit. People who feel good about themselves don't generally devote their lives to sociopaths like God.| Well annoying or not when someone claims that Hawking is one of the greatest minds in the last 100 years I am simply going to remind them that that is their opinion, rather then get bogged down over some side tangent conversation about the All Century Mind Club. |
That's opinion.| I desire this for Hawkings sake and no other reason. |
That's opinion. |
Nope. That's my desire. I should know, I am me. |
No, that's your opinion of what you think you want. People hide agendas from themselves all the time.| I could really care less, no? |
The proper idiom is "couldn't care less." Saying that you could care less means that you do care some. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 04:37:53 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
Originally posted by Bill scott
Why "trust in modern medicine and science, and the stamina of a man, and then hope for the best"... |
Who does that? The trust isn't the ends, it's the means to something of value. |
PZ Myers
| ...when the best that can be hoped for is a pitiful existence in a dark cruel world? |
That's true for everyone. |
That was my whole point.
| Why fixate on the finite when the infinite is at hand |
?
Because "the infinite" has zero value for anyone. |
You do not know this.
| Because one's eternal destination is still changeable before death. |
But the value of the two destinations is the same: none. |
You do not know this either.
| Based on my own merits I shudder at the thought of standing before God with nothing but my own righteousness. What a naked feeling that would be. |
I would guess that's because you have so little self-worth that you think yourself beneath the consideration of a self-described whining, codependent bully. Too bad for you. |
Huh? |
I said, Bill, that the reason you're terrified of "standing before God" is that you've got so little self-esteem that you crave the approval of that demented twit. People who feel good about themselves don't generally devote their lives to sociopaths like God. |
I have many many flaws. I am after all human. Halfmooner was willing to acknowledge a flaw of his. The man whom feels good about himself and puffs himself up with pride when he exists in such a flawed state is the one who has really fooled himself and is blinded to the reality of his own condition.
| Well annoying or not when someone claims that Hawking is one of the greatest minds in the last 100 years I am simply going to remind them that that is their opinion, rather then get bogged down over some side tangent conversation about the All Century Mind Club. |
That's opinion. |
That was my point.
| I desire this for Hawkings sake and no other reason. |
That's opinion. |
Nope. That's my desire. I should know, I am me. |
No, that's your opinion of what you think you want. People hide agendas from themselves all the time. |
But that's just your opinion, that I hid my agenda from myself. Maybe I didn't?
| I could really care less, no? |
The proper idiom is "couldn't care less." Saying that you could care less means that you do care some. |
I see. How about, "I don't care, at all."? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 05:12:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
PZ Myers |
He'd be surprised to hear that.| Because "the infinite" has zero value for anyone. |
You do not know this. |
If Heaven is perfect and Hell is eternal torture, then yes, I know that. Risk is intolerable in the former and reward impossible in the latter. Therefore, there will be no striving for goals in either place, and that challenge is what gives actions (and their results) value.| But the value of the two destinations is the same: none. |
You do not know this either. |
Yes, yes I do.| I have many many flaws. I am after all human. Halfmooner was willing to acknowledge a flaw of his. The man whom feels good about himself and puffs himself up with pride when he exists in such a flawed state is the one who has really fooled himself and is blinded to the reality of his own condition. |
You say that only to justify your lack of self esteem, to make it appear to be a virtue, when in reality you're just a doormat, desperately waiting for the One True Foot to come down and scrape its mud off onto you. There's a big difference, Bill, between accepting yourself (and thus not needing the approval of anyone, much less a Divine Bully) and being prideful. That you equate the two supports my hypothesis about you. Any flaw, for you, is obviously too large for you to cope with, and so you think yourself unworthy of anything. So what the hell does God want with a piece of trash like you? Talk about pride!| But that's just your opinion, that I hid my agenda from myself. Maybe I didn't? |
That's opinion.| I see. How about, "I don't care, at all."? |
What do I care? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/23/2009 : 05:54:03 [Permalink]
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Opinion: n.
A viewpoint held by an individual or group that might or might not be of value to others. It is usually to the benefit of it's holder(s) that it remain unexpressed unless qualified by fact and/or event.
Example 1:
It is the opinion of young Earth Creationists that the biblical Garden of Eden debacle is responsible for all evil.
Example 2:
It is the opinion of certain people that due to his tragic disability, Stephen Hawking is a worthless human being.
Example 3:
It is my opinion, qualified by fact and event, that the holders of the previous opinions are full of shit.
It should be noted that this lexicographer is not just picking out & on Bill Scott. His net is cast much wider.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 04/23/2009 05:55:43 |
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dglas
Skeptic Friend
Canada
397 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 08:24:11 [Permalink]
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Why are you folks permitting yourselves to be baited like this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30323352/
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- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
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| Edited by - dglas on 04/23/2009 08:33:52 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 09:40:11 [Permalink]
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Thank you. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Stephen Hawking ill, hospitalized
