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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 07/27/2010 : 22:07:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Dave W.
(by failing to mention that the Laws of Thermodynamics were created by God). |
Well that is so obvious it does not need to be said. |
I only wish that were the case.
I think that people like Bill are highly insecure in their faith. Either he's worried that if the Bible is wrong in one place, then it might be wrong about Jesus' sacrifice (and so nobody is "saved"), or he's yelling really loudly about how faithful he is more to convince himself that he's got faith than for any other reason. Either way, lots of people find the need to say that which is so obvious that it doesn't need to be said, and it's really annoying.
I think the above mostly covers the loud and obnoxious fundamentalists of any faith. The Christian death-cultists just happen to be a majority both in the world and in the country I call home, and so their fundie sects get to be my poster-children for how not to think.
The more-reasonable of their brothers - those who understand that God gave man the ability to do science and who don't think their God is a huge liar who planted false evidence - get (perhaps) unfairly caught in the cross-fire a lot of times. (But I'm hardly sympathetic, since I think that faith itself is a clear and present danger to society.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 22:25:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
Bill, you may claim to view the manger scene as mere acknowledgment of a historical event, but this is not how the public sees such a thing. To view Jesus on the cross as just "an event that happened" seems to marginalize your beliefs to being almost nonexistent, wouldn't you agree? Are you really willing to do so for the sake of publicizing your religion? |
Ricky, you make a point I had been thinking about making. It amuses me to no end to see people like Bill throw their faith under the bus in favor of political expediency.
Christmas is about some guy being born exactly like Memorial Day is about some guys dying in some wars or July 4th is about some document being signed. Christmas is a Holy Day for a reason, and that reason has everything to do with the faith of a particular sect, and thus symbols of that sect cannot be considered secular with regard to the First Amendment. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 23:18:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
I think that people like Bill are highly insecure in their faith. Either he's worried that if the Bible is wrong in one place, then it might be wrong about Jesus' sacrifice (and so nobody is "saved"), or he's yelling really loudly about how faithful he is more to convince himself that he's got faith than for any other reason. Either way, lots of people find the need to say that which is so obvious that it doesn't need to be said, and it's really annoying.
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I don't think Bill is insecure in his faith but I do think that American Christians put their country above thier faith a lot of times. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 23:38:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Ricky
Bill, you may claim to view the manger scene as mere acknowledgment of a historical event, but this is not how the public sees such a thing. To view Jesus on the cross as just "an event that happened" seems to marginalize your beliefs to being almost nonexistent, wouldn't you agree? Are you really willing to do so for the sake of publicizing your religion? |
Ricky, you make a point I had been thinking about making. It amuses me to no end to see people like Bill throw their faith under the bus in favor of political expediency. |
This is an intersting point.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 04:50:15 [Permalink]
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I think you all have taken my position way out of context. I do not seek to publicize anything. I have stated several times on this thread that the government needs to stay out of promoting any world view or philosophy. What I find telling are the lengths that many have went to to defend a publicly funded 20.7 million dollar science fair project promoting the philosophy of monkey to man human evolution using my tax dollars to do so. They will defend their publicly funded 20.7 million dollar science fair project to the death but yet in the next breath they will blow a gasket over a court house in some town who puts up a $25 Merry Christmas sign over the Christmas holiday. Their hypocrisy is deafening.
And if you all want to strip the tax exempt status from churches then strip it across the board from all. And while we are at it there are billions of dollars worth of grants going to suspect and worthless ventures that I have on my chopping block radar as well. We could pay off this national debt real quick if fiscal conservatism was actually practiced. Instead we are trillions in debt but, we do have a publicly funded 20.7 million dollar science fair project promoting the philosophy of monkey to man human evolution that a few thousand people may get a chance to look at. Great! A great waste of the people's money that is. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 05:28:46 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Robb |
| Frankly Bill, I don't see any problem with this. |
You don't see a problem with our government, who is already trillions in debt, spending 20.7 million dollars of the people's money to fund a science fair project which promotes the philosophy of monkey to man human evolution? We will just have to disagree here then.
| Are we Christians for truth or not? |
What does that have to do with a publicly funded science fair project that promotes a philosophy?
| This is what the current science says how we became who we are today with most of these scientists being honest people doing science. |
This is what the current science says according to the beleifs of those who subscribe to the philosophy of monkey to man human evolution. Many believe the current science says something much different.
| It takes no faith to believe that heat transfers from a Hotter to Colder temperature. That is science. |
Noted.
| However it does take faith to believe that the Bible is the word of God, Jesus is the son of God and he was killed and resurrected. |
It takes a certain degree of faith no matter what world view or philosophy you subscribe to.
| Government should be out of religion completely so you and I can worship how we wish. |
I completely agree and have stated so several times on this thread already.
| If the government can put a statue of the ten commandments on public property then they can put a statue of the Koran as well. |
That is why my position from the start of this thread has been that the government should not be in the business of promoting any religion, world view or philosophy including a publicly funded 20.7 million dollar science fair project on monkey to man human evolution philosophy.
| Neither helps free worship but towards tyranny. |
Agreed.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 07/28/2010 05:32:31 |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 05:34:40 [Permalink]
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This is what the current science says according to those who subscribe to the philosophy of monkey to man human evolution. Many believe the current science says something much different.
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It's more like proto-monkey/human evolving to monkey/human
And what do those who believe that current science says something much different believe then? |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 05:51:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
This is what the current science says how we became who we are today with most of these scientists being honest people doing science. |
Sense I do not know you I would like to ask, just out of curiosity, is it your belief that God created man in his current state or that God created man and then he evolved into his current state? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 05:59:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
I think you all have taken my position way out of context. I do not seek to publicize anything. |
Except your own inconsistency. First you say,| I have stated several times on this thread that the government needs to stay out of promoting any world view or philosophy. |
And then you say,| We could pay off this national debt real quick if fiscal conservatism was actually practiced. |
So you want the government to not promote any philosophy except the philosophy of fiscal conservatism.
Of course, the important failure on your part is that the First Amendment prohibits the government from promoting religions, not philosophies. The government is free to promote non-religious philosophies (like science) as much as "We the people" want, and it does. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 05:59:56 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Ebone4rock |
| t's more like proto-monkey/human evolving to monkey/human |
Regardless it is still philosophy.
| And what do those who believe that current science says something much different believe then? |
That man was created in his current state and is not a evolved from a prototype-monkey, which original evolved form some other life form, which emerged from some primordial warm soup, which just so happen to be there. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:04:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Ebone4rock |
| t's more like proto-monkey/human evolving to monkey/human |
Regardless it is still philosophy.
| And what do those who believe that current science says something much different believe then? |
That man was created in his current state and is not a evolved from a prototype-monkey, which original evolved form some other life form, which emerged from some primordial warm soup, which just so happen to be there.
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Then why did God create me with that useless appendix that I used to have that almost killed me? |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:15:29 [Permalink]
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You don't see a problem with our government, who is already trillions in debt, spending 20.7 million dollars of the people's money to fund a science fair project which promotes the philosophy of monkey to man human evolution? We will just have to disagree here then.
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Bill, old friend, I fear that you have fallen yet again into the dank pit of misinformation. The 20.7 taxpayer figure is incorrect. Private funding accounted for the bulk of it.
Why is Smithsonian Taking Koch's Cash?
— By Kate Sheppard
| Fri Apr. 2, 2010 11:32 AM PDT.Koch Industries and its billionaire leaders are among the biggest funders of the climate denial machine. And now Koch money is funding a new wing of one our nation's museums of record, the Smithsonian. In March, the National Museum of Natural History opened the David H. Koch Hall of Human Origins, after the billionaire polluter donated $15 million.
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And as for the "monkey-to-man" bullshit, we've gone down that road before and it has taken us nowhere. Therefore, I will merely state that the paleontological evidence is there in the Hall of Human Origins for all to see. Check it out; I will as soon as I can save up enough to fix my electric sick-sled and go to D.C. Probably late this coming fall.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:16:31 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| The government is free to promote non-religious philosophies (like science) as much as "We the people" want, and it does. |
And it light of the current economy and all the current budget shortfalls throughout our government on all levels do we the people really want the federal government funding to the tune of 20.7 million dollars a science fair project promoting a philosophy which is only held by a minority? I say no.
When we have teachers, police and firefighters, among others, being let go do to shortfalls how do we justify funding a 20.7 million dollar science fair project, that may be viewed by a few thousand people, and promotes a philosophy which is held by a minority? It's a complete waste of the people's money in a time when we can least afford it. Period. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:25:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| The government is free to promote non-religious philosophies (like science) as much as "We the people" want, and it does. |
And it light of the current economy and all the current budget shortfalls throughout our government on all levels do we the people really want the federal government funding to the tune of 20.7 million dollars a science fair project promoting a philosophy which is only held by a minority? I say no.
When we have teachers, police and firefighters, among others, being let go do to shortfalls how do we justify funding a 20.7 million dollar science fair project, that may be viewed by a few thousand people, and promotes a philosophy which is held by a minority? It's a complete waste of the people's money in a time when we can least afford it. Period.
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Bill, read my post above, please.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ken Ham: not even a very good liar.
