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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2013 : 09:43:37 [Permalink]
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Bill:
Not for the democrat party. To them this is an issue of potential voters and nothing more. Their disdain for voter ID law proves that point. |
Well let's see. You just had a GOP official fired in South Carolina for admitting out loud that the voting laws were targeting those most likely to vote Democratic. In his words the law, "is going to kick the Democrats in the butt." Investigation after investigation doesn't support any widespread voting fraud going on. So yeah. The Democrats disdain ID laws, but it's because the GOP is pushing a bogus issue to tilt elections in their direction. The GOP is trying to prevent legitimate voters from voting.
The GOP has no shame. Questions of morality and decency don't even apply to them because they don't know what those things are. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 11/08/2013 : 10:05:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Dave W.
Do you have any evidence that even a single illegal immigrant is or will be "getting long term heath care benefits packages from the federal government"? |
That is irrelevant to... |
So we can only discuss one subject at a time, now? If that's the case, let's go back and you can provide evidence that the ACA exchange website(s) have taken five years to develop and cost billions of dollars.| ...your unfounded and unwarranted claims that I am a racist bigot and your inability and refusal to apologize when faced with this fact. |
I provided you with the foundation. Your choice of groups to illustrate a problem with the ACA was what was unfounded and unwarranted. Let's remember:| You have Obamacare taking the burden of all this free healthcare off of the hospitals back and putting right on the backs of the working folks, who will see their healthcare costs go up anywhere from 2X's - 6X's what they pay now so that non-working folks and illegal immigrants can have free healthcare. |
The ACA doesn't give free health care to illegal immigrants or non-working folks. But even if it did, the costs would pale in comparison to the subsidies the ACA gives to the working poor (plus the many more of them who will get to go on Medicaid). So the target of your outrage can't be fiscal, and it's not the "illegal" part of "illegal immigrant" (since you included presumably legal "non-working folks"). Still looks like relative melanism is the thing those two groups have in common, while lighter groups don't pique your ire but should. Your denial and demands for apologies (for things I didn't do) don't actually refute my arguments (which, I feel the need to remind you, have nothing to do with your feelings towards conservative President Obama or towards progressives in general). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2013 : 10:29:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
How are you unable to see that actually defending our boarders and curbing the flow of illegal immigration will lower costs? If we would have been doing this all along we would not even be in this mess. |
Hear that, folks? Bill has figured out that the only reason for skyrocketing health-care costs is illegal immigration! Frivolous medical lawsuits jacking up malpractice insurance rates? Negligible, obviously. Massive tuition increases at medical schools? Piffle. Plain-old inflation? Irrelevant. The only thing between us and affordable insurance for all citizens is the failure of the Border Patrol!| Not for the democrat party. To them this is an issue of potential voters and nothing more. |
Welcome to Bill's Ministry of Information.| Their disdain for voter ID law proves that point. |
How many cases of actual voter fraud have been prevented by voter ID, Bill?| The UN voting observers at the last presidential election came away stunned that most voters didn't even have to show an ID to vote. |
Citations, now.| We can legally require ID's to buy cigs, porn, alcohol, lottery tickets, to cash a check etc... etc... etc... but as soon as you mention needing one to vote the progressives get their panties all twisted claiming that this is somehow racist?!?!?!?!? |
Voting is a right enshrined in the Constitution. The ability to buy porn? Not so much.
Republicans feel so confident they come right out and admit that voter ID laws are intended to keep poorer, older and browner people away from the polls, because those groups tend to vote Democrat. You deny your racism all you like, Bill, but others admit to it happily on your behalf.| But requiring an ID for all these other transactions somehow is not?!?!?!?!? |
All those laws came with non-racist rationales, Bill. Voter ID laws? There is no evidenciary basis for such extreme measures. Every time voter fraud gets studied or investigated, the results are far less drastic that the fraidy-cat Republicans make them out to be. Mere dozens of fraudulent votes found instead of the thousands that the people insisting on voter ID laws claim.
So because there's no evidence that voter ID prevents vote fraud at any level that could seriously threaten to swing an election, there must be another reason for conservatives to want to increase the size of the government by instituting these laws. Luckily, many Republicans have admitted to the racist basis for the laws, so we don't need to guess.
You can be damn sure that if Republicans ever figure out how to get minorities to vote for them, the GOP will lead the charge to repeal all these crappy laws. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2013 : 10:36:11 [Permalink]
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| Hey, Bill: how much does illegal immigration cost, in terms of productive dollars, to the legal citizens of this country every year, on average, do you think? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2013 : 11:01:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Bill:
Not for the democrat party. To them this is an issue of potential voters and nothing more. Their disdain for voter ID law proves that point. |
Well let's see. You just had a GOP official fired in South Carolina for admitting out loud that the voting laws were targeting those most likely to vote Democratic. In his words the law, "is going to kick the Democrats in the butt." Investigation after investigation doesn't support any widespread voting fraud going on. So yeah. The Democrats disdain ID laws, but it's because the GOP is pushing a bogus issue to tilt elections in their direction. The GOP is trying to prevent legitimate voters from voting.
The GOP has no shame. Questions of morality and decency don't even apply to them because they don't know what those things are.
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What is so hard about getting an ID for any legal citizen? Why no backlash from the dems over ID requirements for anything else? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2013 : 11:16:52 [Permalink]
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Bill:
What is so hard about getting an ID for any legal citizen? Why no backlash from the dems over ID requirements for anything else? |
Safety issues. But in general no no no no. I'm not going to listen to you trying to rationalize why it's okay for the GOP to purposely try to restrict a targeted demographic from voting.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2013 : 11:27:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Not for the democrat party. To them this is an issue of potential voters and nothing more. Their disdain for voter ID law proves that point. The UN voting observers at the last presidential election came away stunned that most voters didn't even have to show an ID to vote. We can legally require ID's to buy cigs, porn, alcohol, lottery tickets, to cash a check etc... etc... etc... but as soon as you mention needing one to vote the progressives get their panties all twisted claiming that this is somehow racist?!?!?!?!? But requiring an ID for all these other transactions somehow is not?!?!?!?!? Down is up, left is right, right is wrong in the progressive's politically correct backwards bizaro [sic] world. 
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Who gives a flying fuck about factions? When did this come up with me? Nice red herring.
Cigs, porn, etc...false equivalences. Try again.
I view denying anyone healthcare is a violation of the Preamble of the Constitution, and also immoral and unethical.
Now, justify your immorality again.
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2013 : 06:20:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
What is so hard about getting an ID for any legal citizen? |
Such a display of privilege. Have you ever tried to get a copy of your birth certificate when you're 90 and were born in a back-woods cabin with no doctor present? Here is a good description of other problems with getting ID and the voter ID laws in general.
Again: I thought you were a conservative, Bill. Voter ID laws are an expansion of government that require significant taxpayer funding for negligible benefit. Real conservatives should oppose them on those bases alone. Constitution-idolizing conservatives should also oppose Voter ID laws because they institute, in practice, a poll tax and deny fundamental rights to legal citizens.
Go figure that: with regard to Voter ID, I am the True Conservative Constitution-lover while Bill is the tax-and-spend liberal pig trampling our rights.| Why no backlash from the dems over ID requirements for anything else? |
Along with the other reasons already given, "prove your age" is quite a lot easier than "prove you are who you say you are." I don't even get asked for ID to buy alcohol, cigarettes, lottery tickets or porn. And I'm happy that my bank asks for ID to cash checks, but I can't find any law in my state that says they have to. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2013 : 15:05:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
"Illegal" does not matter to me - this is a question of human decency and morality.
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Hear! Hear!
Health care for everyone should be a human right.
I don't understand how Christians can bitch about paying a little extra when it means that their fellow man gets treatment when they get sick or injured. Jesus allegedly healed a lot of people and said that caring for your neighbours was a good thing. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2013 : 17:57:03 [Permalink]
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Mab:
Health care for everyone should be a human right. |
It's interesting that the concept of healthcare as a human right is lost on the religious right. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 06:51:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Jesus allegedly healed a lot of people and said that caring for your neighbours was a good thing.
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Yep. Mt. 25:31-46
Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2013 : 12:35:51 [Permalink]
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Yeah, moakley, but don't forget that illegal Mexican immigrants are mostly Catholic. It's not like they are True(tm) Christians, and therefore not brothers of Christ.
Especially since all of Jesus' brothers must have died within say 50 years of his crucifiction... You won't find any nephews alive either.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2013 : 12:57:53 [Permalink]
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Anything the GOP doesn't like = slaveryYoure forgiven if Palin is on your ignore list. In case you missed it, the half-term former Alaska governor riled up an Iowa crowd this weekend by declaring what she was about to say isnt racist, then immediately complaining that liberals (presumably) would try anyway to make it seem racist, and then making her ignorant comparison between the national debt and chattel slavery, which is at best deeply dismissive of slaverys cruel and persistent legacy in American society, if not actually racist.
Railing against Democrats luring voters with offers of free stuff (like health care), Palin went on:
| Our free stuff today is being paid for today by taking money from our children and borrowing money from China. When that note comes due and this isnt racist, so try it anyway, this isnt racist but its going to be like slavery when that note is due, right? We are going to be beholden to a foreign master. |
Palin is ignorant, but shes not entirely stupid. She wrapped a lot of demagoguery in a very few sentences. Not only does she minimize the horror of slavery, she gets to play victim while doing it. How dare those liberal racists call us racist for equating things government does that we dont like with having absolutely no rights, and being owned and worked by someone else, who has the power to beat you and rape you and/or rip your children from your arms and sell them to someone else (and/or rape them too, because why not?) |
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2013 : 07:16:09 [Permalink]
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Infighting is never a good sign. And to say that BO is as unpopular as GWB, that is harsh.
Many Americans have experienced the ill effects of Obamacare. Thats because the Presidents broken promises are piling up. He promised that if you like your health care plan you can keep it. But for millions of Americans, thats not true.
He said that the law would make health insurance more affordable. But across the country, many Americans are seeing their premiums go up, not down. And when launching Healthcare.gov, the Obama administration said that the website was safe, secure and open for business. We now know that isnt true, either.
Is he even more unpopular than George W. Bush? I think thats already happened, said one Democratic chief of staff.
"Here we are, were supposed to be selling this to people, and its all screwed up, one chief of staff ranted. This either gets fixed or this could be the demise of the Democratic Party."
Its probably the worst Ive ever seen it, the aide said of the recent mood on Capitol Hill. Its bad. Its really bad.
Theres been an increase in frustration because people feel like they are continuing to be blindsided, said one Democrat who attended the caucus meeting, adding that theres a check-the-box mentality at the White House in dealing with lawmakers.
Theyre freaking out, as they should be, said one senior Senate Democratic aide, adding that the rollout continues to be a lasting mess.
People here want to be on the record showing support for fixing the problem, the senior Senate aide said. He should understand that. For someone who served in Congress, people are surprised how little he understands Congress.
The only way he can really make it up to us is by fixing this s--t, one Democratic House aide said.
http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/190844-obama-hits-new-low-with-dems-at-capitol |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2013 : 15:35:29 [Permalink]
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Bill you forgot to attribute quotes to Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX). Which lines above belongs to him, and which belongs to Amie Parnes?
(and which of them, if any at all belongs to you?) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Obamacare is the worst thing since slavery!
