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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13477 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2007 :  11:53:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
skeptic griggsy:
Theisitc evolution is just obfuscation.

I'll take their acceptance of evolution on their terms, being a much saner position than what creationists have to offer, just as long as it doesn't interfere with the actual science or what is being taught in science classrooms.

It isn't as though people of faith are going to just jump ship and become atheists because evolution happens. We should be happy about their acceptance of science and not worry so much about who they give the credit too...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2007 :  13:06:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
kil said:
quote:
It isn't as though people of faith are going to just jump ship and become atheists because evolution happens. We should be happy about their acceptance of science and not worry so much about who they give the credit too...


Well, we shouldn't accept argumentive fallacy from them either.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13477 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2007 :  15:21:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

kil said:
quote:
It isn't as though people of faith are going to just jump ship and become atheists because evolution happens. We should be happy about their acceptance of science and not worry so much about who they give the credit too...


Well, we shouldn't accept argumentive fallacy from them either.



Well, I have never had a believer in theistic evolution tell me, beyond what they believe, what I should believe. Those people that I know are cool with the secular approach to the subject, and are not hostile to the quest for knowledge. Mostly, they are as upset as we are about creationists…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2007 :  13:39:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

ricky said:
quote:
You have to admit, that isn't the worst argument against evolution. It's not like he said evolution can't be true because there are no half-monkey half-humans running around. And at least what he said was true, we can't observe evolution over long periods of time. Then again, we can't observe anything over long periods of time, given that we've only known how to write for 7000 or so years.



Actually, we can look back hundreds of thousands of years to millions of years. The record is anything but complete, but we do have things like fossils and ice cores that extend our perceptions back quite a long way in the history of the earth.

I would argue that we can, have, and will continue to observe evolution over very long periods of time.



I was referring to direct observation, as the Pope was in the quote.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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