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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 06/16/2007 : 08:12:58 [Permalink]
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Dave, health care is a function of government?
Cune, did you watch the interview with Yuri Bezmenov former KGB agent that describes how and why the Soviets created a culture of communism within America, and to such an extent that even they pervyaors of these communist ideals would not recognize it as communist even when presented evidence of the fact?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 08:15:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, health care is a function of government?
Cune, did you watch the interview with Yuri Bezmenov former KGB agent that describes how and why the Soviets created a culture of communism within America, and to such an extent that even they pervyaors of these communist ideals would not recognize it as communist even when presented evidence of the fact? |
I think this is what we call a dodge. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 08:15:42 [Permalink]
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Dave, which founding fathers wanted nationality controlled schooling?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 08:25:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune, did you watch the interview with Yuri Bezmenov former KGB agent that describes how and why the Soviets created a culture of communism within America, and to such an extent that even they pervyaors of these communist ideals would not recognize it as communist even when presented evidence of the fact? |
I saw the video. It's rubbish. I'm not even sure what to say-- I'm going to buy into the notion that the Soviets successfully brainwashed an entire generation of school children in the 60's (how is unclear-- but since he says so, I guess that's proof?), and now those brainwashed kids, all Soviet sympathizers, are in power? Moreover, they somehow don't even know that they've been brainwashed?
Is this supposed to be some kind of grand proof of your claim? It's comical. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 08:26:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, which founding fathers wanted nationality controlled schooling? |
Good-- I was worried that you'd forgotten how to use the move-the-goalposts tactic to try and get out of admitting you are completely wrong. I'm happy to see that you're still able to employ it. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 08:31:28 [Permalink]
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Cune, he speaks about exactly what we are discussing. The communist aspects of America and the denial of this fact despite evidence.
Do you contend that the soviets did not try this in America as they had done successfully in other nations; or that they were not success in America?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 08:43:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune, he speaks about exactly what we are discussing. The communist aspects of America and the denial of this fact despite evidence.
Do you contend that the soviets did not try this in America as they had done successfully in other nations; or that they were not success in America? |
Well, it's the ultimate defense on your part and completely unassailable. All you have to do is say that I've been brainwashed and am simply unable to see that this is a communist nation even if we are. What's the point of debating? I presented irrefutable evidence that the notion of free public education was floating around long before Marx wrote the Manifesto, and you've completely dodged the issue. I've also critiqued other of your examples, and your best counter-argument has been to move the goalposts. Now, you've resorted to a cop-out defense-- that you are right, but I'm simply unable to understand because I've been brainwashed.
Given this, I will have to drop out of this discussion with you. It's rather pointless to argue, as you can now always simply claim that I've been brainwashed into thinking something. It's a rather poor tactic, but hardly surprising given the actual merits of your argument. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 06/16/2007 08:44:12 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 09:03:25 [Permalink]
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Cune, you are comparing the idea of locally controlled community schools to nationally controlled schools and stating that these are the same.
They are vastly different ideas. The nationally controlled schooling system; which we have in America, is the idea stated in the communist manifesto.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 09:27:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune, you are comparing the idea of locally controlled community schools to nationally controlled schools and stating that these are the same.
They are vastly different ideas. The nationally controlled schooling system; which we have in America, is the idea stated in the communist manifesto. |
Except we don't have nationally controlled schooling. And it's hard to argue that we have that in light of the fact that I cited state constitutions as mandating such things. A search through more recent state constitutions finds the same thing.
But this debate is stupid: I've just been brainwashed into thinking that schools are locally controlled. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 09:41:17 [Permalink]
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Cune, the federal government mandates much of public schooling and withholds funds if not followed. This is control. This idea of federal government involvement is new in America; it was a central theme in the Kennedy-Nixon campaign.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 09:59:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune, the federal government mandates much of public schooling and withholds funds if not followed. This is control. This idea of federal government involvement is new in America; it was a central theme in the Kennedy-Nixon campaign. |
No, it doesn't. The very recent NCLB does have performance standards, but by and large the states set their own curriculum (e.g. here, here, and so on), and of course local districts are in charge of hiring their teachers, selecting textbooks, and so on. This is what was set out in the state constitutions I linked to and quoted from. But again, I've probably just fallen prey to the Soviet brainwashing. Alas. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 11:45:41 [Permalink]
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http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/index.html?src=gu
"ED currently administers a budget of about $67.2 billion per year—$57.5 billion in discretionary appropriations and $9.7 billion in mandatory appropriations—and operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve more than 14,000 school districts and approximately 56 million students attending some 94,000 public schools and 28,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 10 million postsecondary students."
http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/role.html
"The Department carries out its mission in two major ways. First, the Secretary and the Department play a leadership role in the ongoing national dialogue over how to improve the results of our education system for all students. This involves such activities as raising national and community awareness of the education challenges confronting the Nation, disseminating the latest discoveries on what works in teaching and learning, and helping communities work out solutions to difficult educational issues."
"Second, the Department pursues its twin goals of access and excellence through the administration of programs that cover every area of education and range from preschool education through postdoctoral research."
Large control and influence of national government in schooling both public and private. In their own words.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 12:07:57 [Permalink]
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It's hard to imagine a person more dishonest in their use of quotes than you. From the very same source you cite, Jerome, it says:| Education is primarily a State and local responsibility in the United States. It is States and communities, as well as public and private organizations of all kinds, that establish schools and colleges, develop curricula, and determine requirements for enrollment and graduation. The structure of education finance in America reflects this predominant State and local role. Of an estimated $909 billion being spent nationwide on education at all levels for school year 2004-2005, about 90 percent comes from State, local, and private sources. |
Indeed, immediately after your first quote in the above post, it follows with| That said, it is important to point out that education in America is primarily a State and local responsibility, and ED's budget is only a small part of both total national education spending and the overall Federal budget, as we explain in a primer on the Federal role in education. In addition to this historical background, we try to demystify the Federal budget process and show how it is carried out in ED. |
And I'll add that again, the states set their curriculum, and local districts chose textbooks, hire teachers, and so on.
Anyone who can be so completely dishonest in their quotes (and yet make it do easy to expose such dishonesty!) must suffer from some sort of cognitive dissonance. Indeed, it has to be that way for you, Jerome. After all, you've put your cards on the table: if you admit that I'm right, it only means that you've bought into Soviet brainwashing. Thus, barring some complete change in the nature of your posts, I won't be responding to this thread anymore. It's pointless. Everyone following this thread knows that your arguments are completely untenable. You of course don't worry about that since you can simple dismiss those people as being similarly victims of Soviet brainwashing. But it's pointless to continue this debate with you. Good luck "comrade" in exposing the Soviet menace that lurks in our brainwashed minds. I anxiously await the next Bolshevik Revolution. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 12:36:41 [Permalink]
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Cune, just because "The structure of education finance in America reflects this predominant State and local role." is stated does not mean the facts bare this out. I have friends and family within the public schools system that decry the influence and control exerted by the feds over the system above and beyond what the local communities desire.
I encourage you to visit your local school and speak with the teachers and discern their opinions on federal influence.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 13:38:02 [Permalink]
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| I encourage you to visit your local school and speak with the teachers and discern their opinions on federal influence. |
What a bafoon. I encourage you to take a bath with a toaster.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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USA is a De facto communist state
