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JEROME DA GNOME
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2418 Posts |
 Posted - 06/30/2007 : 12:06:23 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer, the communist party was then and is now an open party in America.
He is not talking about several different things, he is clearly talking about a single entity.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2007 : 12:26:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
| He is not talking about several different things, he is clearly talking about a single entity. |
Can not something be a single entity composed of different things?
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Yes, but as a common whole. Not communism, mafia, and business together; unless of course one contends that the secret society that JFK is referring to contains these parts.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2007 : 16:27:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Ricky
| He is not talking about several different things, he is clearly talking about a single entity. |
Can not something be a single entity composed of different things?
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Yes, but as a common whole. Not communism, mafia, and business together; unless of course one contends that the secret society that JFK is referring to contains these parts.
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Gee, so when he spoke of "Secret societies", he only meant one. Your logic is inescapable. Completely invalid, but inescapable.
Try again. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2007 : 17:08:28 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer, he defines the threat as a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy. This would be singular. When he mentioned secret societies in the plural he was talking about Americas natural opposition to all such entities, hence the use of the plural.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2007 : 18:10:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Valiant Dancer, he defines the threat as a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy. This would be singular. When he mentioned secret societies in the plural he was talking about Americas natural opposition to all such entities, hence the use of the plural.
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Monolithic as in the conglomeration being a formidable force to be reconed with.
I cannot agree to your flawed premise that Kennedy was talking in the singular instead of the plural. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2007 : 18:15:58 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer, the fact that he describes it as a conspiracy denotes that it is an entity working as one. A conspiracy can not possibly mean separate groups not working together and working for different goals.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2007 : 22:25:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Valiant Dancer, the fact that he describes it as a conspiracy denotes that it is an entity working as one. A conspiracy can not possibly mean separate groups not working together and working for different goals.
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If taken as an omnibus changing of American society, then yes, a conspiracy can seperate groups not working together having a cumulative ill effect on society.
Again, I cannot, within the context of Kennedy's address, agree that he is speaking about a singular secret society instead of multiple secret societies and social ills.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 10:54:39 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer said:
| If taken as an omnibus changing of American society, then yes, a conspiracy can seperate groups not working together having a cumulative ill effect on society. |
Absolutely not. A conspiracy can not involve different groups that are not working together.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 11:19:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Valiant Dancer said:
| If taken as an omnibus changing of American society, then yes, a conspiracy can seperate groups not working together having a cumulative ill effect on society. |
Absolutely not. A conspiracy can not involve different groups that are not working together.
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Conspiracy: Attempt to get people hooked on substances so they have no choice but to buy more.
Conspirators: South of the border drug dealers and tobacco companies.
Conclusion based Jerome's statement: Tobacco companies are working with south of the border drug dealers.
The 3 C's shows that you're full of crap, crap, crap.
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You are stating my point. These different groups are not a conspiracy. Please reread the above posts.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 13:21:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Ricky
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Valiant Dancer said:
| If taken as an omnibus changing of American society, then yes, a conspiracy can seperate groups not working together having a cumulative ill effect on society. |
Absolutely not. A conspiracy can not involve different groups that are not working together.
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Conspiracy: Attempt to get people hooked on substances so they have no choice but to buy more.
Conspirators: South of the border drug dealers and tobacco companies.
Conclusion based Jerome's statement: Tobacco companies are working with south of the border drug dealers.
The 3 C's shows that you're full of crap, crap, crap.
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You are stating my point. These different groups are not a conspiracy. Please reread the above posts.
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Actually, he has a valid point.
The conspiracy stated here is one that many have attributed to both drug dealers and tobacco companies. People have done time for the former conspiracy.
They are disparate groups not working with one another for a common goal of completing the conspiracy. Your faulty premise states that no conspiracy can be done by disparate groups not working in close conjunction with each other.
His summing up of your point is spot on and underscores the serious logical defect. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 13:27:25 [Permalink]
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Please allow me to understand. Valiant Dancer and Ricky are arguing that different groups not in conjunction working twords different goals are a conspiracy?
This is an opposite of the definition of conspiracy.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 15:24:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
| working twords different goals are a conspiracy? |
No Jerome, they are working towards the same goal.
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Business, communists, and the mafia are working towards the same goal?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Kennedy examines the conspiracy
