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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 07/17/2007 : 07:53:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Originally posted by Ricky
Jerome provides a graph of data, and while he fully trusts the graph itself, he doesn't trust the people who made the damn thing.
He is showing his selectivity in what he believes once again.
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Odd fundie game #148.
http://www.ralliance.org/GamesFundiesPlay.html
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Love that stuff!
Here's some I see Jerome using all the time: | 32. "Manna was made out of cornbread!" In this fun exercise, the fundie makes a claim that is so extremely stupid that it immediately sidetracks the entire discussion. The idea is to get people so interested in pointing out that corn was not even introduced to the region until thousands of years later that they forget about the real discussion and the fundie's complete inability to support his opinion. This allows the fundie to make the same false statement later on and claim that he was never refuted before. |
[The trollish practice of sidetracking and thus disrupting discussions is the main thing he does.]| 35. "I am not a fundie!" In spite of all evidence to the contrary, a fundie will frequently claim that he is NOT a fundie. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and lays eggs like a duck, it is probably a duck. |
[We've all seen that Jerome flies the false flag of skepticism, as with his outrageous use of Russsell's quote in his sig. He's all contradictory with "I don't visit creationist sites." "Goddidit!" "'Kinds' of creatures." (These and my later quotes are approximations from memory.]| 39. The "Accuse everyone else of what *I* am doing" game. Fundies think that if they accuse others of what THEY are doing, no one will notice their hypocrisy. |
["Science is a religion. You are only saying that (about the Big Bang/evolution/support for public education, etc.) out of faith."]| 41. "I think in bumper stickers": The fundie will mindlessly repeat short, memorized phrases rather than engaging in a rational discussion. He will fiercely oppose any attempt to get him to actually engage his brain. See "You use too many words!". |
["Life only comes from life."]| 52. The "Fundie Blinders" game. The biggest problem with fundies is that they NEVER look at the full context, even when it is laid out for them. They just start exactly where they are told to start, stop exactly where they are told to stop, and carefully ignore everything else. Then they are given a hate-filled misinterpretation of the tiny verse-fragment they have torn out of context and will never be shaken from that twisting of scripture no matter what. |
[Jerome claims his morals are based upon the Ten Commandments, even though few of them really involve morality, and many basics of ethics are not to be found in them. This works with his cherry-picking of science, too. What goes in has little resemblance to the interpretation that comes out of him.]| 54. The 'flounce' is the announcement that they are leaving the forum and the discussion, never ever to return. The "flounce" is also applied to individuals with a "I will never speak to you again!" proclamation. Unfortunately they never follow through. It is just a play for attention. The fundies MIGHT, however, come back under different screen names to try and hold on to the fiction that they actually left. |
[To his credit, and often to our irritation, Jerome doesn't do this.]| 70. "Evolution is only a theory!" In this fundie game, the fundie will attempt to pretend that a scientific theory is just a wild-assed guess, even though he has been presented with the definition many times in the past. |
[Endlessly!]| 71. The "Opinion Fallacy" holds that all opinions are the equal of all other opinions regardless of whether they're valid or not. If something is called 'opinion' it cannot be subject to criticism and/or ridicule. |
[He works this wonderfully in combo with the last one.]| 74. The RED HERRING, introduction of an irrelevant issue into a discussion as a smokescreen. It is a tactic designed to divert attention from the issue at hand. There are numerous variations on this tactic, but the underlying idea is that if they KNOW they have lost the debate and feel that the only hope is to distract people from noticing the obvious. |
[I hate it when he does that!]| 82. "Moving the goal posts" -- in this interesting game the fundie makes some bald statement, like "Nothing has ever been left out of any Bible". After numerous counterexamples he keeps excluding things from what he originally said until the word "nothing" finally morphs into something like: "nothing that was needed for the purpose of many purpose which can be reasonably be construed as Christian was left out". |
[His goal posts are on wheels, and have powerful turbocharged engines.]| 93. "Perseveration" This is the fundie version of perseverance. It's when they keep doing the same thing, over and over, even if it's not working, and appears completely idiotic to everyone else. |
[And how!]| 99. "Memory Loss". The fundie will be provided with absolute proof that he is mistaken about some fact, and moments later he will be once again making the same discredited claim as if he never heard the refutation before. He will also deny that the refutation has ever even been given. |
[I honestly forget how many times he's done this.]| 116. "Everything is religion". In this game the fundie will claim that EVERYTHING is religion, including atheism and science. With that in place, he thinks it is no longer necessary to back up any of his statements. |
[He's done variations on this one.]| 125. "I ask you again..." In this brilliant game, the fundie asks the same question over and over again, ignoring the fact that it has been answered many times already, and that the answer in any case is irrelevant to the discussion. This is very similar to "Snapping". |
[Tell me about it!]| 139. "Deceptive Partial Quoting." In this fundie game, a fundie will quote reputable sources and well respected figures to make their point. If you follow up and check out the actual quotes in context, you will find that the fundie has left out some key information. Frequently the information left out are words to the effect of: "This does NOT mean that..." or "We have not found any evidence to support the idea that..." |
[More quote-mining, cherry-picking.]| 149. "Bury the facts in shit" In this fundie game, after a fundie has received a rebuttal of his position that is so compelling that even he knows he is wrong, the fundie will start a flurry of one-line meaningless messages composed entirely of fluff and/or insults. The purpose of THIS game is to bury the rebuttal so deep in the thread that no one will be able to find it in the midst of all the garbage. |
[He does this with fluff-type distracting questions, bizarre nonsequiturs, and off-the-wall statements, often after being asked question he cannot answer, or having a claim thoroughly deconstructed. These distractions are often signaled by his use of the "winkie" ( ) emoticon]
All in all, though he uses many of the same tactics as the fundies described in this list, Jerome is not as obviously hateful or bigoted as they generally are. But he does seem to have a deep anti-intellectual streak that makes him want to show that he's smarter than anyone else, because he can disrupt any conversation or debate.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/17/2007 21:25:48 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 14:18:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
Great link Val. Have you been hiding it from us all this time, or did I just miss it before?
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I've only trotted it out a few times.
:)
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 19:11:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
No, it is a consensus of a few scientists and many government agents as stated in the IPCC documents. You should read the IPCC report and not accept the propaganda. |
The IPCC reports upon the consensus, they don't define it.
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Define the consensus.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 19:14:09 [Permalink]
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I am constantly amazed at the ability to look at scientific data that disagrees with ones world view and discount it.
Read my sig for further clarification.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 19:27:57 [Permalink]
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You had a typo in there, Jerome, let me help you (I'm the editor here, after all):Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I am constantly amazed at my ability to look at scientific data that disagrees with ones world view and discount it.
Read my sig for further clarification.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/17/2007 : 19:32:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
You had a typo in there, Jerome, let me help you (I'm the editor here, after all):Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I am constantly amazed at my ability to look at scientific data that disagrees with ones world view and discount it.
Read my sig for further clarification.
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What? Where?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 19:37:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
What? Where? |
Apparently my edit wasn't clear (actually I missed one anyway):Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I am constantly amazed at the my ability to look at scientific data that disagrees with ones my world view and discount it.
Read my sig for further clarification.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/17/2007 : 19:39:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
What? Where? |
Apparently my edit wasn't clear (actually I missed one anyway):Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I am constantly amazed at the my ability to look at scientific data that disagrees with ones my world view and discount it.
Read my sig for further clarification.
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I guess you did not read the sig.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 20:18:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I guess you did not read the sig. |
We all read it. That you fail to see how greatly it applies to yourself is what everyone here finds shocking.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 20:22:10 [Permalink]
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Jerome wrote:| I guess you did not read the sig. |
Actually, Jerome, as I have complained since you first displayed here those words of wisdom by Bertrand Russell, you are the one using them without understanding how thoroughly they devastate your positions.
Let me review Russell's statement, step by step: | What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. |
It's ironic that this illustrates why you are blind to even the meaning of Russell's words.| If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. |
And I would add to Russell, "sometimes even if the evidence is overwhelming," as with your insistence of "goddidit" instead of evolution.| If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. |
As when you are even now eagerly jumping on a woo-woo cosmology, in another thread, because the language used by its promoters is anti-scientific, anti-intellectual, and offers a "truth" that a poorly educated person can understand and parrot.| The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
And we again see the process played out here in these fora by you, Jerome.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/17/2007 21:28:41 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 04:58:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
I guess you did not read the sig.
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As Halfmooner has pointed out, your posts indicate that you do not understand you sig. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 18:32:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
By the way, if anyone is still wondering how one determines what the consensus is, you find out by examining 928 published papers, and finding that none of them disagree regarding the main question.
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That is an article from 2004; this is before the IPCC came to a consensus that man is a large contributor to global warming.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 18:48:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dave W.
By the way, if anyone is still wondering how one determines what the consensus is, you find out by examining 928 published papers, and finding that none of them disagree regarding the main question.
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That is an article from 2004; this is before the IPCC came to a consensus that man is a large contributor to global warming.
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Yah.
That makes all the difference.
Yup, completely invalidates all the evidence to the contrary.
Baaaaaaaa.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 18:57:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dave W.
By the way, if anyone is still wondering how one determines what the consensus is, you find out by examining 928 published papers, and finding that none of them disagree regarding the main question.
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That is an article from 2004; this is before the IPCC came to a consensus that man is a large contributor to global warming.
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Yah.
That makes all the difference.
Yup, completely invalidates all the evidence to the contrary.
Baaaaaaaa.
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The information presented does not correspond to the question at hand.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Stranded Polar Bears Due to Mans Warming?
