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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2003 : 06:35:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Mahaad_Mana
http://www.new-life.net/hmsxl01.htm
Just go to this site and actually read it not juat part of it. Some of it is Christian stuff but the first part it not and that is what i'm, refering to.
Read the whole site and investigated links as well.
Unfortunately it is a Christian site and it is not neutral. In my experience such sites often selectively quote from reputable sources to back up their positions, so I really need to check their references. I can't access those journals without a paid subscription, so I can't tell if the cited studies really say what they claim.
Some general observations on the cited studies:
Due to the way society treats homosexuals, not all will admit the fact even in an anonymous survey. The older the survey (e.g. 1980s era) the more likely that this could bias the results. I'd like to see what the studies said, if anything, about this and if they factored this into results in any way.
The American Family Institute cited for suicide and life expectancy studies has a strongly anti-homosexual agenda. Their research is suspect.
Are higher suicide rates among homosexual teens more likely to be the result of peer abuse or intolerance than of their sexual preference?
How does the rate compare to the suicide rate of 'unpopular' kids?
When you see studies cited to support a position you really need to read the studies to see what they actually say and to see how they were conducted. It's easy to selectively quote a study and ignore anything that does not support the desired position. It's also easy to design a study that creates desired results by ignoring factors that would produce other results.
Studies publish in peer reviewed journals such as the Journal of the American Medical Assoc. carry more weight than studies published without peer review, but even then I still want to read the study to see everything that was published, not just selected quotes that support one position.
- TW
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 07:19:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Mahaad_Mana
[quoteAnd allot of it is just stupid shit. By the way who decides what applied thousands of years ago and what applies today? You? How do we know that forbidding homosexuality was one of those things that only applied thousands of years ago? It always amazes me how hypocritical Christians can be with their own faith and how little they understand their own holy book.
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ANSWER: We cause your not Christian how can you understand. I said only CERTAIN THINGS! ANd homosexuality is NOT one of them.
You're dodging the questions...
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1) Who decides what applied thousands of years ago and what applies today?
2) How do we know that forbidding homosexuality was one of those things that only applied thousands of years ago?
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1) Why the large majority of Protestant church does.
2) You or someone said the old testiment doesn't exsits. So here are some verses from the new testiment besies the old testiment:
http://www.geocities.com/johndavidmueller/Homosexuality.htm
Man, Dr. Mabuse your a phyico.
=A true Christain is someone who practices + believes and does 100% of what God say in the bible. I do not call myself Christian because it would give true christains a bad name since I still do many things that are unchristian, which I am fully aware of is sinning and do not regert it. eg. gossip, lying, stealing
=You say you are not Christain which must mean you do not understand.
As I already said I believe in God except find it hard to do as he says. So what if I believe that God exist. It's got nothing to do with you.
That's your problem and I can go on ranting how your belief in Homosexuals is bad but I decided before not to cause it kept going to circles and I just realised it is wrong to force your own belief on other people.
So stop bible-bashing Christians just because of their belief. Without Christains this whole would would still be a like a rock-hole. Back in the middle ages the Protestants protested against the catholic chruch saying that all people should have rights and started the modern democracy system which later went to Amercia and the world. Without them you wouldn't even have any rights today.
http://www.hoocher.com/mr.j'spage/thegrowthofdemocracy.htm
And many orginisations are made by Christains to help the poor. eg. Salvation army and many more. They are doing it for the good of the world. And I also acknowledge there are also many other kind people out there too who do that which are not Christian. Why should I respect your belief about homosexuality if you do not respect my beliefs in God?
Besides you don't have any proof God doesn't exsit and he is just a 'fairy-tale'.
http://righteouswarriors.com/questions/questions7.html
But of course, I cannot make you believe those facts and you are own your own to decided.
"The atheist cannot even be 100 percent certain of his belief, "There is no God."
[/quote]
Some corrections and replies.
Biblical scholars have said that Leviticus was superceded by the New Covenant. Perhaps actually studying your own dogma is in order.
Disease spread within the homosexual community is normal for any population that engages in the same risk factors. I have posted CDC numbers which indicate that heterosexuals are most likely infected by needle sharing by intraveinous drug users or heterosexual contact. Homosexual males are most affected by the spread of sexually transmitted diseases due to the nature of their sexual act. It has a high incidence of rectal tearing and condom failure which allows the fluid transfer point. The other main problem with your arguement is that mere exposure to a blood borne pathogen does not ensure infection.
Your contention that since someone is not a Christian, they cannot possibly understand is a completely specious arguement. I used to be a Christian. I have read the Bible several times. I am not currently a Christian because of a serious disconnect between the Bible and some sections of Christian dogma.
The modern idea of a representative republic (the form of government that the US operates under) is actually a Native American concept put forth by the Six Nations almost 800 years ago. The idea of a government by the people and for the people had been considered in Europe, but the governments and church of the time actively discouraged it. It took Americans to find a functioning republic and adapt it to their use before it caught on in Europe. You have the mistaken belief that all modern thought comes from Christianity. The opposite was true in the early church. Gunpowder was invented by the Chinese (Buddhaists), modern logical processes and the vestiges of medicine were brought forth by Archemedies, Plato, Socrates, and Hypocrates (polytheists), the church declared the science of ballistics heresy, decried Copernicus (polythiest) and Johannes Kepler (Christian but threatened with ex-communication) because they dared suggest that the Earth moves through space, functional representative republic form of government (Shamanism).
While Dr Mabuse has no evidence to prove God does not exist (which is logically impossible to prove a negative), you have no evidence to prove God does exist. You also make the mistake of claiming atheists say that there is no God. They do not. They just lack a belief in that theological construct. The only thing they do say is that there is no empirical evidence that a supreme being exists. Should such evidence appear, they would accept that there is a God.
The purpose of a species is to replicate itself so that it will survive. Traits of the individual do not necessarily apply to the traits of the whole. The point of homosexuality is not species destruction as you absurdly deduce, but population control. If a species breeds themselves out of an adequate food supply, the species will die off. This is completely natural. I got this from several sources, not just one. You then construct a "do it if it feels good" strawman arguements. Obviously, Lawrence v. Texas has distrurbed you. Had you bothered reading the ruling, it explicitly carves out prostitution and acts involving a non-consenting person or animal. Under the law, animals cannot give consent. And to cut off your next arguement, neither can children. Prostitution is covered under the states right to prohibit or regulate commerce. The thrust of Lawrence v Texas is that what happens between two concenting adults behind closed doors is not a matter of public concern.
You don't like homosexual behavior, then don't become one. Making unsupported arguements and citing the Bible in direct conflict with Biblical scholars does not help your case for it being immoral.
Namecalling, likewise, does not support your position but instead shows the weakness of your arguement. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 07:39:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tw101356
quote:
Originally posted by Mahaad_Mana
http://www.new-life.net/hmsxl01.htm
Just go to this site and actually read it not juat part of it. Some of it is Christian stuff but the first part it not and that is what i'm, refering to.
Read the whole site and investigated links as well.
Unfortunately it is a Christian site and it is not neutral. In my experience such sites often selectively quote from reputable sources to back up their positions, so I really need to check their references. I can't access those journals without a paid subscription, so I can't tell if the cited studies really say what they claim.
Some general observations on the cited studies:
Due to the way society treats homosexuals, not all will admit the fact even in an anonymous survey. The older the survey (e.g. 1980s era) the more likely that this could bias the results. I'd like to see what the studies said, if anything, about this and if they factored this into results in any way.
The American Family Institute cited for suicide and life expectancy studies has a strongly anti-homosexual agenda. Their research is suspect.
Are higher suicide rates among homosexual teens more likely to be the result of peer abuse or intolerance than of their sexual preference?
How does the rate compare to the suicide rate of 'unpopular' kids?
When you see studies cited to support a position you really need to read the studies to see what they actually say and to see how they were conducted. It's easy to selectively quote a study and ignore anything that does not support the desired position. It's also easy to design a study that creates desired results by ignoring factors that would produce other results.
Studies publish in peer reviewed journals such as the Journal of the American Medical Assoc. carry more weight than studies published without peer review, but even then I still want to read the study to see everything that was published, not just selected quotes that support one position.
- TW
From the American Family Institute cached homepage (homepage seems to be down).
"Nat'l organization focused on strengthening family and marriage relationships and giving religion and prayer a prominent place in everyday life."
It's a front group for Senator Jesse Helms. It shares his bias. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 08:01:06 [Permalink]
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<<So stop bible-bashing Christians just because of their belief. Without Christains this whole would would still be a like a rock-hole. Back in the middle ages the Protestants protested against the catholic chruch saying that all people should have rights and started the modern democracy system which later went to Amercia and the world. Without them you wouldn't even have any rights today.>>
Even if this were fully accurate, and it isn't, the agenda of the Christian right-wing today seeks to deny others many rights. Examples that spring immediately to mind: the right to be free FROM religion; the right for homosexuals to marry; and in recent months, the right to criticize our government without being accused of anti-Americanism or even treason.
I just hafta snicker at the idea that I should be grateful to Christians for my freedoms. I'm grateful indeed, but Pat Robertson ain't on my list of people I thank.
Irony: it's what's for breakfast. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 09:45:24 [Permalink]
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My two cents:
At the risk of being redundant and obvious, I'm going to say this again with regard to using the Bible as justification for deciding any law, including Gay rights.
We just can't allow it. If we use a belief system rooted in a claim that cant be falsified as our reason for deciding what laws are OK, we are headed for, or strengthening a theocracy which effects all religious freedoms. (Naturally, I include the right to no religious belief as a religious freedom.)
Gay happens. And Gays should be afforded all the rights and protections guarantied by the Constitution to all citizens.
Religion should be irrelevant where the law is concerned. Considering religion is a violation of the separation clause which should serve to protect religious freedoms. You cannot protect religious freedom by enacting laws or allowing exceptions to the seperation clause to make one religion happy.
I am not anti any religion. I am anti theocracy.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Wolf_CanisLupus
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 14:24:49 [Permalink]
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Maahad_Mana-don't let homosexuals fool you into believing they are right cause that's what they are trying to do with younger generations today.
Like you have said before. The reason for two genders is to reproduce provided with many logical examples, the return ones those homosexuals gave you are just theories and the 'facts' to support them are pretty crap and are exaggerated. They say in the African population of heterosexuals with HIV spread faster then homosexuals. Here, they are just ignoring the fact that the population of heterosexuals are 'way' as you mentioned higher than homosexuals and homosexuals are more 'easily prone to such diseases.' This has been proven with the sites you have already given and many more. They are ignoring the facts or are just changing them giving false information to 'justify' their acts. Many sites on satistics also do this to encourage homosexuals partly cause they are made by homosexuals. Dear
readers do not ask me for proof cause that is what they do.
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/urban/two.php -Check it out.
The most basic reason homosexuals attack religion especially Christainity is cause it's the most easiest to blame and they as you mentioned refused to say the good will of many Christains that have contributed in this world along with many other religions. In christianity I believe it says homosexual activities are wrong. So those what you call 'bible-bashing' people are just trying to silence the voice of those people. To promote themselves.
http://www.realwomenca.com/newsletter/2003_mar_apr/article_1.html
I know animals can also be homosexuals but does it mean it is still natural? What can be gained from homosexual activity? Nothing but pleasure. So it means that animals do it for pleasure. But wait? Don't heterosexuals do it for pleasure too? Yes, but that was nature's intention in the first place. For us to reproduce, we have to enjoy doing it and homosexuals are just people who have found other 'ways' to feed that desire. Like you stated from that site monkeys also get lots of leaves and 'yeah' do it with themselves. In other words IT IS NOT NATURAL and is only a mere 'substitute' for the pleasure. Besides only a TINY population of the animals actually do that in the wild and a dog's natural behaviour is so twisted by human interference-I once watched my friend's male dog munt him when he tripped over. The dog was doing it for pleasure. They basicly will latch onto anything a couch even to get pleasure.
Two males parents in any way is not a better guardianship for children nor is two females. Children need to
emotionally experince the diversity of the two genders and influences. If homosexual parents was more effective why did nature create a large majority of straight parents in humans in the first place? You can't tell me, we're 'evolving' cause the way we socialize now is no different then from years before.
They also blame heterosexuals for the violence that homosexuals cause obviously they want more rights than you and will always blame anything that gets in their way of trying to make homosexuality allowed. Like Christains, heterosexuals, homophobic.......
Homosexual Urban Legend is used by homosexuals to lobby for state and federal hate crime laws that provide enhanced penalties for crimes committed against homosexuals. These laws, in effect, make heterosexuals second class citizens under the law because they are not a protected class. A person who assaults a homosexual will receive a stiffer penalty than a person who assaults a heterosexual for the same crime.
Crime in the United States, 1997 (FBI crime statistics), for example, shows that so-called "hate crimes" constitute an extremely small percentage of overall crime. According to the FBI, in 1997:
Out of 20,000 murders, nine were considered hate crimes.
Out of every 20,000 rapes, 2 were hate crimes.
Out of every 20,000 aggravated assaults, 24 were hate crimes.
In fact, the majority of these few hate crimes are not violent at all, but are listed as "simple assault" or "intimidation." A person who "name calls" another person is considered to have committed a hate crime because his "victim" may feel "intimidated." Name calling should not be a federal crime, but it is under many hate crime laws.
In 1998, there were 16,914 murders committed. Of those, 13 were considered hate crimes. The victims were all men, as were their killers. FOUR OF THESE MURDERS WERE COMMITTED AGAINST HOMOSEXUALS. So out of 16,914 murders in 1998, only four were considered to be hate crimes directed against homosexuals. - From site http://www.traditionalvalues.org/urban/four.php
Another thing the high record teen suicide from homosexuality is nothing but a lie to be accepted and seen as normal people.
http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/five.php
I can go on ranting for days about this. But I'm sorry you homosexuals can stop putting up charades that you are 'born gay.'
The authors of this study carefully quote a number of homosexual researchers who have worked for years to locate a "gay gene" or some other genetic basis for homosexuality. They have failed and are now admitting that such evidence may never be found.
Homosexual researcher Dean Hamer, for example, attempted to link male homosexuality to a bit of DNA located at the tip of the X chromosome. He has written: "Homosexuality is not purely genetic…environmental factors play a role. There is not a single master gene that makes people gay. . . . I don't think we will ever be able to predict who will be gay."
http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/three.php
I know those sites all come from the sameone but at least someone exposed the fraudry of it all. So I'm sorry all and all, it means animals are also not born gay and that 'born gay' is not natural and is also a pathetic excuse to cover up your homosexual acts. Too many of your satistics have been proven wrong for people to trust you again.
I am not as you homosexuals say to anybody who say gay is wrong, ignorant or homophobic. All those stated above are true facts and not 'theories' to support my claim. Just accept the facts. I suppose cannibalist and rapist should also have their own platform saying it's perfectlly normal to 'justify their acts.' Animals also do it too, it's natural.................................
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 14:35:53 [Permalink]
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Wolf, one question.
Who is harmed by two grown women having consensual sex?
Please note that saying their eternal souls are harmed because the Bible says they're going to hell is *not* an acceptable answer to this question because we live in a democracy, not a theocracy (as has been pointed out 80 squillion times on this website.)
Right now, two women are having sex together somewhere in the world (and no, I'm not one of them; I'm straight.). I repeat: Who is harmed by these two women having sex? |
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 15:59:01 [Permalink]
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Wolf CanisLupis write,
quote:
The reason for two genders
Actually there is around 5 or 6 genders genetically and a host more if one considers biological hormonal factors.
quote:
What can be gained from homosexual activity? Nothing but pleasure.
I have already given several reasons of what could be gained from homosexual activity, the fact that you and others ignore them does not make them go away.
Your ignorance of basic biology is astounding for one who speaks so authoritativly on the subject.
quote:
I can go on ranting for days about this. But I'm sorry you homosexuals can stop putting up charades that you are 'born gay.'
Yes ranting is exactly what you are doing. I am not a homosexual, amrried with 2 kids to be exact. I just don't go around ranting nonsense that doesn't agree with the data and speaking about subjects I know little about as if I do. Something you are quite skilled at. |
| Edited by - jmcginn on 09/19/2003 16:00:22 |
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Wolf_CanisLupus
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 18:32:58 [Permalink]
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Obviously you people didn't read the sites or ignored the facts. I know there are MORE than two genders. But I am referring to HUMANS. I have never met a human being before, humans do NOT have multiple genders. The fact that homosexuality occurs for animals that are over crowded is a pretty pathetic reason and is theory biased. Why not just jump of a cliff like lemmings? Besides not all the animals could 'breed' or actually wants to. Another excuse homosexuals are just evolutions to look after young. Maybe that's the reason why animals can only have babies at certain times of the year so they can looks after them themselves.
Stop calling anyone ignorant who doesn't 'agree' with you. You say I rant and I can go on saying that Homosexuality is not genetic. Well just cause I can 'rant' doesn't change the facts-go to the sites and see for yourselves. You didn't even support your claim why homosexuality is genetic when you *quoted* it except saying I 'rant'. I too am a married woman with two children and would not open my loud mouth to something I do not understand.
Two grown woman having sex? Who could it possibly hurt? Well let me see............the two women can pass on diseases. Would you eat a banana if it said it would give you cancer? It's like telling someone not to smoke since it's bad for them. http://www.ph.ucla.edu/sph/pr/newsitem041901.html
And don't go back to the old saying 'oh heterosexuals get diseases too.' Cause that was that sex was designed for, reproduction.
I might as well join to rapist rights as well.
Besides who the hell was talking to any of you people? I was talking to Mahaad_mana as addressed. I won't even bother comming to this form. All you people ever speak of is anti-homosexualist are ignorant and know 'little' about their subjects. You people just do not accept the facts that you have 'lied' on your satistics to promote your 'self-esteem.'
Besides it's pretty cruel of you people to say to a 14-year-old girl and encourage her as a bisexual/lesbian due to some random feeling when she was 8. |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 20:24:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolf_CanisLupus
Obviously you people didn't read the sites or ignored the facts.
Hard to find any facts amongst the tripe at those sites.
quote:
I know there are MORE than two genders. But I am referring to HUMANS. I have never met a human being before,
?? Are you a space alien?
quote:
humans do NOT have multiple genders.
And people with XXY chromosomes instead of XY or XX are what?
quote:
The fact that homosexuality occurs for animals that are over crowded is a pretty pathetic reason and is theory biased. Why not just jump of a cliff like lemmings?
Non-sequitur.
quote:
Besides not all the animals could 'breed' or actually wants to. Another excuse homosexuals are just evolutions to look after young. Maybe that's the reason why animals can only have babies at certain times of the year so they can looks after them themselves.
Stop calling anyone ignorant who doesn't 'agree' with you.
Demonstrated lack of knowledge is the cause, not lack of agreement.
quote:
You say I rant
...because you do rant.
quote:
and I can go on saying that Homosexuality is not genetic.
Merely saying that does not make it so.
quote:
Well just cause I can 'rant' doesn't change the facts-go to the sites and see for yourselves. You didn't even support your claim why homosexuality is genetic when you *quoted* it except saying I 'rant'. I too am a married woman with two children and would not open my loud mouth to something I do not understand.
Unless you are unable to comprehend the scope of your lack of understanding.
quote:
Two grown woman having sex? Who could it possibly hurt? Well let me see............the two women can pass on diseases. Would you eat a banana if it said it would give you cancer? It's like telling someone not to smoke since it's bad for them. http://www.ph.ucla.edu/sph/pr/newsitem041901.html
That link says that lesbians smoke more and have fewer diagnostic health tests. It makes no claim whatsoever about the causes of this behavior. They don't contract 'smoking' from each other. The study behind it was undertaken to see if there was a need for more health education directed at the lesbian community.
Apparently "...you did not read the sites, or ignored the facts."
quote:
And don't go back to the old saying 'oh heterosexuals get diseases too.' Cause that was that sex was designed for, reproduction.
Not designed. Evolved.
quote:
I might as well join to rapist rights as well.
Non-sequitur.
quote:
Besides who the hell was talking to any of you people? I was talking to Mahaad_mana as addressed.
This is a public board. Everyone is free to comment on what you post. If you want your communication to be private, you should have a private communication. If you spout nonsense on a board like this, people will comment on it. Get used to it.
quote:
I won't even bother comming to this form. All you people ever speak of is anti-homosexualist are ignorant and know 'little' about their subjects. You people just do not accept the facts that you have 'lied' on your satistics to promote your 'self-esteem.'
The anti-homosexual fetishists very frequently are ignorant, as evidenced by their constantly citing medical studies to prove a point without understanding that the cited results have no bearing on their point.
quote:
Besides it's pretty cruel of you people to say to a 14-year-old girl and encourage her as a bisexual/lesbian due to some random feeling when she was 8.
Hardly. You did not "read the site".
- TW |
- TW
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Mahaad_Mana
New Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2003 : 20:27:49 [Permalink]
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Wolf_canislupus (well if you actually come back here)
I think you made a mistake on your first paragraph saying 'you have never met a human being before.' You must mean you have never met a human being before who has multiple genders? -_-;;;;;;;;
But there one thing I have found, it's funny how how gay people always call anyone who doesn't agree with them 'ignorant' and Christans are 'hypocritics' and believe in some 'fairy-tale' world in so many different sites. I have done some research and the sites you gave and I have found are pretty much right and they are a danger to our society.
They always are using the same excuses like using minority groups to support their claims or the "30%" of teenagers kill themselves cause they're gay when it has already been proven false many times and over. I'm not going to bother to say anything else cause all they do is scream back at you like there is no tomorrow. |
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Bradley
Skeptic Friend
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 01:50:52 [Permalink]
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"Wolf CanisLupus" is a rather ironic choice of user names for such an ovine individual.
The puritanical preoccupation that he, creation88 (here and in the abortion thread), and like-minded folks have with topics like "sin," "evil," "pleasure," "immorality," etc. only serves to reveal the discomfort they feel with healthy human sexuality.
I would recommend that they get information on the subject from reputable modern sexologists, rather than anemic xian preachers (who should get honest jobs). |
"Too much doubt is better than too much credulity."
-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833 - 1899) |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 06:02:23 [Permalink]
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Wolf, thanks for answering my question. I read the link. And as stated above, it looks to be a correlative-type study. In other words, lesbians and bisexuals apparently have higher rates of other high-risk health behaviors. I don't believe the point of the study is to say that homosexual behavior makes you more likely to get heart disease--we both know that doesn't make much sense.
In fact, HIV rates for lesbians are very low, in the studies I've read.
You sound kind of hostile, Wolf. I've been respectful to you and I ask you to give me the same in return, K?
To ascribe immorality to a sexual act, wouldn't you agree that some harm must come from it? For example, we all agree that rape, incest, and beastiality cause harm to innocent, non-consenting victims, by definition, right?
As we've established, no harm to innocents comes from two consenting adults having homosexual relations. So, where, besides the Bible, would you find any evidence that homosexual behavior is immoral? And, further, when does the line of immorality begin--at a kiss? At fondling? At penetration? At genital contact? |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9691 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 14:21:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Mahaad_Mana
To warp it up:
Are you going to turn up the heat even more?quote:
I admit I was wrong in some things...
Admitting that you are wrong makes you grow on me. I admire people who are willing to re-evaluate their positions in the face of new facts.
quote:
Maybe animals also do it too but you fail to mention that they masturbate with objects as well. Which is obvious they do it for pleasure cause doing it with the same gendered sex-bring them pleasure. It even says in the article you gave:
"Sexual pleasure is "inherently valuable" and requires no further 'justification.'
So it is a choice because unlike animals humans can reason and chose.
I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. Sexual pleasure is "inherently valuable" and requires no further 'justification.'... I would add: in a evloutionary perspective, in case of us humans. Our society of cooperation has enabled us to produce offspring during any time of the year. By being more sexually active (without any special focus on heterosexuality, but sexuality in general, including homosex, self sex=masturbation, necro, bestiality, etc.) we produce more offspring. Masturbating, or being gay are natural 'trade-offs' to this increased sexuality.
quote:
The only thing I am now really against homosexuality now is sex between two same gendered people cause it is still dangerous and can cause infections and diseases faster and like I said before endangers people and creates more health problems in the population.
It's not the homosexual activity itself that is the problem. It's promiscuity. And that is the major cause for the HIV spread in Africa amongst heterosexauls.
quote:
But there are also many people who have had been exposed to many abuse and violence in their lives and yet they grow up perfectly fine like non-abused people.
You haven't seen much of the world that's for sure. Just because they "grow up perfectly fine" at least on the outside doesn't mean they are not messed up inside. Thinking that is just naive.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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lambchop
New Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2003 : 14:22:49 [Permalink]
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It looks to me like the posts by C-88 and our two newest fundy troll-wannabees have some things like persistent misspellings, confusion of the possessive with the contracted verb form and similar grammatical issues in common.
As the GREATEST SOCK PUPPET IN HISTORY, I think I smell others of my species.
Of course, it could be that they all go to the same (very bad) school... |
I have naturally curly hair. |
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Topic Locked
