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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
 Posted - 08/26/2001 : 19:40:52 [Permalink]
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peny, you can argue with snake endlessly, but let me ask a more practical question, if you are on the jury and its he said-she said, no other witnesses, and no physical evidence of force, how does a person decide guilt or innocence?
by the way, i would never suggest that arguing with snake is not a most plesant diversion.
comrade billyboy |
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Penyprity
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2001 : 18:12:31 [Permalink]
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Well, Comrade, I guess I would have to aquit. The burden of proof is on the prosecution to make its case. If they cannot then, in this country, you are innocent until proven guilty. I believe in that so....
I also believe that women have accused men of rape when it was not. They make it difficult for women who really have been raped. But its a good question.
As for arguing with Snake...in this case..its a lot like running on a treadmill. Ya get all breathless and hot, but you never get anywhere.
Make your vote count. Become a supreme court justice......Peny |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2001 : 18:49:57 [Permalink]
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Perhaps the best way to avoid being raped is never to let yourself be in a place where such an action can be accomplished by some lewd semi-human idiot. Also it helps to know who is a possible semi-human idiot, in the first place. This advice applies to both genders, because males can be raped as well as females. In other words, no stupid lapses in judgment should be permitted.
ljbrs
Perfection Is a State of Growth... |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2001 : 19:03:35 [Permalink]
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If only it was that easy....
 @tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Penyprity
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2001 : 22:51:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Perhaps the best way to avoid being raped is never to let yourself be in a place where such an action can be accomplished by some lewd semi-human idiot. Also it helps to know who is a possible semi-human idiot, in the first place. This advice applies to both genders, because males can be raped as well as females. In other words, no stupid lapses in judgment should be permitted.
Yes, In a perfect world, rape would not be an issue at all, so you could be an idiot and no one would suspect you of anything. But, this is not a perfect world and someone could seem quite nice, and still be a rapist. Date rape happens a lot. Its not like a rapist wears a tag that says "Hello, Im a rapist". Being aware of your surroundings and knowing the people you are with helps a lot...but not always.
As for men being raped..I guess so. I dont have much information on it. And Im sure it is far more rare. Rape is a physical act of violence, and since most women are physically weaker then men, its got to be fairly rare. But if we look at our poll, it suggests that coersion and threats can be rape, and women can sure do that. Im sure men are sexually harrassed, especially as women climb the corporate ladder (although, one can be harrassed by a subordinate too).
Make your vote count. Become a supreme court justice......Peny |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2001 : 08:05:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
As for men being raped..I guess so. I dont have much information on it. And Im sure it is far more rare.
I don't have anything to back this up, but I vaguely remember hearing that the number of man-man rapes in prison far outnumber the incidences of man-woman rapes outside of prison.
Maybe the difference is that men handle it better emotionally (don't dwell on it, or let it affect their lives as much), so the issue isn't brought up as much? (<- this is not a claim, just a speculation with no evidence )
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane...
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 08/28/2001 08:06:20 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2001 : 09:16:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't have anything to back this up, but I vaguely remember hearing that the number of man-man rapes in prison far outnumber the incidences of man-woman rapes outside of prison.
See? The death penalty let's 'em off easy
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2001 : 17:43:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Maybe the difference is that men handle it better emotionally (don't dwell on it, or let it affect their lives as much), so the issue isn't brought up as much? (<- this is not a claim, just a speculation with no evidence )
I would say that men are less inclined to report anything due to shame. It admits to being powerless and to having been invaded, which I believe the traditional male role is less willing to cope with or to admit.
I am afraid I'm not clever enough to come up with a good signature, eh? |
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Penyprity
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2001 : 19:17:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Maybe the difference is that men handle it better emotionally (don't dwell on it, or let it affect their lives as much), so the issue isn't brought up as much? (<- this is not a claim, just a speculation with no evidence )
[quote]
I would say that men are less inclined to report anything due to shame. It admits to being powerless and to having been invaded, which I believe the traditional male role is less willing to cope with or to admit.
So inciteful... 
I also dont know that the rape of men-men, or women-women, in prison would be for the same reasons as a person who rapes under "normal" social conditions. People in prison have limited choices. But I still think it is a crime of violence and domination..and not about sex. If I have some extra time, I will do a little research and see if there is anything on it.
Make your vote count. Become a supreme court justice......Peny |
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2001 : 09:21:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
But I still think it is a crime of violence and domination … and not about sex. If I have some extra time, I will do a little research and see if there is anything on it.
The idea that rape is not “about sex” is a ridiculous modern myth of the political correctness movement, it has little to do with science. It is blindingly obvious that it is about sex. First off, it involves a sexual act by definition. I suppose then that your claim is more along the lines of motivation for rape behavior.
Here are three separate arguments which address this matter:
1) Rape (in the legal sense) involves penile-vaginal penetration
2) Such penetration requires an erection.
3) Erections are the result of sexual arousal.
4) Rape involves male sexual arousal as a prerequisite.
1) Most rapes involve seminal ejaculation.
2) Seminal ejaculation requires male orgasm.
3) Orgasm is the highest state of sexual arousal.
4) Rape involves sexual arousal as an end goal.
Taken together, we see that sex is the initial motivation and the end goal.
What then are the arguments and evidence that rape is motivated by something other than sex?
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2001 : 13:05:12 [Permalink]
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I left the third argument implicit. My bad.
1) Rape is defined as a coerced sex act
2) Rape always involves coercion (domination)
3) Rape always involves sex
It is clear then that rape it cannot be "about" just the one or the other...
Edited by - tergiversant on 08/30/2001 13:10:01
Edited by - tergiversant on 08/30/2001 13:14:34 |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 09:33:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Taken together, we see that sex is the initial motivation and the end goal.
Rape is domination through the act of sex. I don't see how that necessarily shows that sex is the initial motivation or the end goal. The initial motivation and the end goal are only identifiable by the person committing the rape.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 10:38:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Rape is domination through the act of sex.
I would disagree, and say rape is the use of domination to aquire sex. If you could experience a male sex drive, this would not be surprising to you. As a male, it is very easy to see how someone who had no empathy for another human could give in to his appetite (which, believe me, is very strong, and is completely sexual in nature, not violent). We see it, and we want it, and we want it bad. Most of us, thankfully, can't even imagine forcing or harming someone to get it.
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Hope springs eternal but there's no conviction
Actions mistaken for lip service paid
All this concern is the true contradiction
The world is insane... |
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 11:58:11 [Permalink]
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I would admit that some rapists are motivated primarily by sex, others primarily by a need for dominance, but my point was BOTH aspects are inevitably involved, it is not "about" merely one or the other. As to which is generally more psychologically dominant, we'd need survey data to answer that. I lean towards Tokyo's spin on the matter, but that is just intuition without evidence.
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2001 : 12:01:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Taken together, we see that sex is the initial motivation and the end goal.
The initial motivation and the end goal are only identifiable by the person committing the rape.
I should have said "Sex is the an initial motivation and an end goal." I think the arousal necessary for erection and the finality of orgasm demonstrate this fairly well.
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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