|
|
|
Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 10/17/2001 : 04:28:00 [Permalink]
|
quote:
It's one of those weird things. The U.S. elected Gore, Florida elected Bush.
No, the people voted for Gore. The states elected Dubya. Law of the land.
Edited by - StarMan on 10/17/2001 04:32:20 |
 |
|
|
qthelost
New Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2001 : 23:10:32 [Permalink]
|
Well said, Starman.
Maybe you've singled out the problem.
By the way I loved visiting Sweden a few years back when I was a student "backpacking" through Europe. We don't have Mountains in the deep South.
|
|
|
|
ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 03:46:51 [Permalink]
|
The problem is though, that without the Electoral College, we would have it even worse.
Doubt it Then, think about this If everyone in New York and California, EVER Voted the Same Way, they would Overpower Everyone else. Not, Scary Enough Well, the Deep South, could do exactly the SAME Thing!
As it is, a Presidential Candidate has to win, at least 12 States, and with the Demographics involved, that will only happen, if the WHOLE Country, feels exactly the Same Way.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away.
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/18/2001 03:47:51
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/18/2001 03:48:19 |
|
|
|
Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 04:48:01 [Permalink]
|
quote:
The problem is though, that without the Electoral College, we would have it even worse.
Doubt it Then, think about this If everyone in New York and California, EVER Voted the Same Way, they would Overpower Everyone else.
I would not call that scary, that is how most elections work. The majority win.
Now a vote in some states is worth less than votes from other states.
|
|
|
|
ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 05:01:52 [Permalink]
|
But, Starman, there is a difference, one that has helped to keep America whole, even though we differ from each other, as much as ANY European.
Under a Majority System, you can get away with convincing a Single Group, that you are Right, even if they only make up, as little as 25% of the Population, as is the case in some Countries. Under the Electoral System, however, that is almost impossible. Unless you can convince the Majority of, at least 12, Very Different places, that you are right, you will lose the Election, even with the Popular Vote.
Instead of Weakening the Smaller States, as is often thought, it instead strengthens them. Without it, no Politician, in their right mind, would EVER venture away from their power base. Furthermore, they would NEVER, even need to have their Names on the Ballots, in the Smallest States. As it is, however, they need to Campaign Everywhere, or else stand absolutely no chance, of Winning the People's Favour.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away.
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/18/2001 05:02:10
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 10/18/2001 05:03:11 |
|
|
|
Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2001 : 05:33:20 [Permalink]
|
I agree that there are advantages with the Electoral System, but as we saw in this election there is a disadvantage, the largest group of voters lost.
There is no perfect system. 
Not all groups are separated by geography, by the way.
/skeptic from a distance 
Edited by - StarMan on 10/18/2001 05:34:04 |
|
|
|
Grand Nubian
Skeptic Friend
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2001 : 22:06:33 [Permalink]
|
As we also saw in this election there's very little difference in who wins.
The only reason I'm concerned is there might be evidence of corruption useful for THE REVOLUTION!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Grand Nubian
Skeptic Friend
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2001 : 02:13:08 [Permalink]
|
anyone been reading the news lately?
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2001 : 04:23:40 [Permalink]
|
Yeah. According to both drudge and Buzzflash, Gore winning FL, in a real squeaker, in at least 6 out of nine scenarios is pretty much official. The mainstream news has pretty much spun it or buried it, or both. I've been checking both Fox and CNN at my son-in-law's house, of and on (I don't have cable). Unless there's a riot in the street, I doubt that we'll hear much hore from them.
I will NOT get over it! I will NOT forget it!
f
The more I learn about people, the better I like rattlesnakes. |
|
|
|
Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2001 : 08:29:11 [Permalink]
|
When they recount all the over/under votes from every state, and it shows that Gore would have won, then we'll have something to discuss.
Until then, this is just sour grapes, and completely pointless.
------------
Sum Ergo Cogito |
|
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2001 : 08:47:17 [Permalink]
|
More sour grapes. What about the military votes that were tossed due to no postage?
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2001 : 08:50:25 [Permalink]
|
What about the military absentee ballots that were filled out by GOP operatives?
I wouldn't have minded seeing a recount of all votes in all states. I bet that would be interesting.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2001 : 09:24:55 [Permalink]
|
Tokyo, ya make a good point, but I fear that the grapes are even bitterer than that.
I seem to recall that the Republicans actually trucked in a pack of cheap thugs to disrupt the FL recount. Some worked directly for Tom (The Vermin) Delay. There has yet to be any charges filed, at least none that I've heard of. And I've been listening, bro.
This might not exactly amount to fraud, but it certainly can be called criminal interference in legitiment, election process. A partisan organization intimidating election officials who were doing their assigned duties. Whaddya think?
So, if this happened in FL, I wonder what went down eleswhere.
Reason tells me that if it happened in FL, why couldn't something similar, or different but just as bad, have happened in other states. A pity that I / we can't know for sure.
I agree that it would be nice to know the popular vote. But in our electorial system, it would make little difference, barring proof of fraud. The uncounted votes would have made no difference in the outcome as relating to the electors, or so we've been told.
This puts me in an uncomfortable position. All of my life, since Kennedy, I've voted a split ticket. As it stands now, I'd not vote for a Republican if the son of a bitch walked on water. I cannot stand dishonesty. BUT, with a few exceptions, the Democrates don't seem to have the onions to stand up and fight. And the Green Party is an excersize in futility (and I'm an eco-freak).
What to do? Hmm. I'll think of something.
Regards,
f
The more I learn about people, the better I like rattlesnakes. |
|
|
|
PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2001 : 09:35:54 [Permalink]
|
quote:
What about the military absentee ballots that were filled out by GOP operatives?
GOP operatives
quote:
I wouldn't have minded seeing a recount of all votes in all states. I bet that would be interesting.
I'm sure many 50 state recounts in the last 200+ years would have been interesting. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.
There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! It wasn't my fault, I swear to god! - Jake Blues |
|
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2001 : 09:41:32 [Permalink]
|
I kinda have to agree with PhD here. @tomic, military ballots were tossed due to no postage - these were from Bosnia. Military members are not required to use postage stamps when they are in a *combat* zone. This is because often times they may not have access to proper postage. FL requires postage on all mail in ballots. So seems they are in conflict. Besides these came from an APO address.
(And dammit! I can play devils advocate here - I didn't vote for anyone on the official ballot - I wrote in my choice.)
[One of these days I will learn to type.]
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain
Edited by - Trish on 11/13/2001 09:42:27 |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
